Skeptoid: Critical Analysis Podcast 
About This Podcast
Subscribe
Subscribe to the Podcast
Episode Guide
Skeptoid Forum
Hosted by JREF
Skeptalk
Email Discussion List
Search:
What Is Skepticism?
Swag & Crap
One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge
Videos
Appearances
What People Are Saying...
Press Room
Contact
Subscribe with iTunes
Skeptoid on MySpace Facebook

Is proving the Bible really doing the work of God?

- Killing Faith: Deconstructionist Christians
Skeptoid en Español

Podcast: /podcast.xml

Blog: /blog.xml

Skeptoid

Religion as a Moral Center

Skeptoid #02
October 11, 2006
Podcast transcript | Listen | Subscribe

Stumble This
Share on Facebook

Today we pull open the drawer in the motel bureau and face the need to have a Moral Center, that core set of behaviors and ethics that governs the way we conduct ourselves and live our lives.

It may shock you to learn this, but I am an atheist. I do not believe that supernatural deities exist. There's nothing evil or wrong about that. I view the Christian God in the same way that the average Christian views Shiva, Athena, or Thetans. There's nothing evil or wrong about doubting the actual divinity of those characters either. Yet a common generalization made by some religious people is that atheists lack a moral center. More than once, in late night bull sessions with religious friends, I've been told that faith is a necessary component for developing a sound moral center. The implication is that religious beliefs play an important role in the development of a normal, healthy system of ethics and personal conduct. Without religious faith, one is less likely to become a "moral" person. Thus, one of many reasons that people of religious conviction want to reach out to atheists is to help them to find a Moral Center, so we don't have a bunch of naked godless pagans running around wreaking havoc and mayhem.

My response to the religious people — after thanking them for the assumption that I am an unethical person — is to compare our Moral Centers and see where these supposed differences lie. If you knew me personally, you would probably find me to be a generally upstanding person, like yourself, who stays out of trouble, brushes his teeth, walks his kids to school, and tries not to shout too much in the library.

Like you, I am generally an honest person. I don't cheat people in business. I don't steal or commit crimes any worse than speeding on the freeway. I lie all the time, but only when the lie is a helpful one: "Yes, you look great in those parachute pants."

Like you, I play fair in sports, even against unfair opponents. I try to be a gracious loser, and occasionally even a gracious winner.

Like you, my family is the most important thing in my life. Preserving the love, trust, and happiness in my family absolutely outweighs all other priorities in my life.

Like you, I have a clear sense of right and wrong. Generally, behavior that injures someone else is wrong, and most of us avoid doing that whenever possible.

Like you, if I see a complete stranger drop their wallet — even if they're a different race and speak a different language — I'll spring into action like Batman to return it to them. It would never occur to either you or I to keep it or expect a reward for returning it.

If I see an elderly woman, I don't run over, punch her in the face and steal her purse; and neither does a religious person. But note that no religious person ever says "I would love to punch out that old woman, but I can't because God told me not to." Nobody is going to do something like that, because it's so obviously wrong. Rarely or never does a basically good person — and that's most of us — need religious commandments to stop them from doing something wrong.

In summary, my Moral Center is essentially the same as yours. It comes from the basic goodness of human nature, and my own sense of right and wrong that is universally shared among all people. It does not stem from having read any particular set of religious commandments, or from fear of punishment from a deity. Since I formed this ethical system in the lack of a religious context, how could my Moral Center be so similar to that of the average Christian or Buddhist? I argue that everyone's basic Moral Center comes from human nature, the nurture of societal interaction, and the sense of right and wrong. Since everyone already has these things, the need to credit religion as an additional source is redundant and thus wholly unnecessary.

A common retort from religious people is that God gave me those things: common sense, and the ability to tell right from wrong. If that's so, and everyone (atheists included) has been gifted with all the fundamentals needed to develop a Moral Center, then we're still left at the same place. A religious upbringing is still superfluous.

Religion is an important and favored part of life for most people. Its practice brings them satisfaction in many ways. But religion is absolutely not necessary to become a good person, or to have a sound Moral Center. Philanthropists, educators, doctors, emergency workers, and Nobel laureates have the same general breakdown of religious affiliation (including atheism) as the population at large, because they are the population at large.

Stumble This

Brian Dunning

References
© 2008 Skeptoid.com

Discuss!

5 most recent comments | Show all 105 comments

Remember, you should always read with skepticism the comments of anyone too lame to put their real name & city.

The new testament contains new covenants that change the old laws to what the new covenant was. And i know that other religious people think that they have found the one true religion just as i claim to have, but i actually have, because of what the book says, how the world behaves in reactance to what the book says, and also the things that god has done in my life. And i would be glad to answer questions about my faith.

mike, pittsburgh
May 08, 2008 10:32am

I don't want to question your faith. I want you to question your own faith. Have you ever asked yourself questions like, "Why do I believe the things that I believe?" This and other questions like it are important questions that anyone, regardless of religion, age, sex, or beliefs, should ask themselves.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
May 08, 2008 11:23am

i have asked myself that question and that is why i believe what i believe. Which is after the week of creation, there were a bunch of animals, probably not the ones today, and dinosaurs. The flood came 2 dinosaurs got on the boat, and the rest were all buried under like the rest of the animals. Then they got off and i dont know about this part but they couldnt get enough oxygen in the humidous environment or something like that and just died off. But dinosaurs are described in the book of job so i dont really know how dinosaurs died out. and then life went on, natural selection, gene flow, and genetric drift also called the process of evolution happened over the next 7,000 years or so, and now things are the way they are. And yes i believe he created the earth aged and the stars in mid-age or around there so we could see the light.

mike, pittsburgh
May 09, 2008 6:30am

True Omphalism doesn't require you to shoehorn dinosaurs into the same time era as humans. When the Earth was created, the fossils were already in the ground, in strata that have all the evidence of being millions of years old.

Have you considered Gap Creationism, as embraced by Billy Graham, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and many other groups?

This is where there is an implied 4+ billion year gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. This is one way you can combine the Genesis creation story with the time it has taken the light from distant stars to reach us, the elemental ratios in the sun, ice cores, the geology of the Grand Canyon, and everything else we see on Earth.

You might want to study Brian's chart of the 6 or 7 main types of Christian creationism. As you can see, the vast majority of devout Christian Biblical belief systems fully allow you to accept what we've learned of our world through science:
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4065

Eric Schultheiss, Corona, CA
May 09, 2008 6:42am

i guess ill have to look into the different types of creationism that fit with the bible. You will too though lol, because what i am trying to do, but not very well, is persuade you to have faith in the bible.

mike, pittsburgh
May 09, 2008 8:08am

Make a comment about this episode of Skeptoid (please try to keep it brief & to the point). Anyone can post:

Your Name:
City/Location:
Comment:
characters left. If you paste in more than 1500 characters, it will be truncated. You cannot comment the same episode twice in a row. Discuss the issues - personal attacks against other posters will be deleted.
Answer 4 + 7 =

You can also discuss this episode in the Skeptoid Forum, hosted by the James Randi Educational Foundation.

Join the Skeptalk email discussion list.

Skeptoid book:
Now available!
 
Skeptoid: Critical Analysis of Pop Phenomena, by Brian Dunning
Newest

Reassembling TWA Flight 800
Skeptoid #99
May 6, 2008
Read | Listen (11:22)
The Crystal Skull: Mystical, or Modern?
Skeptoid #98
April 29, 2008
Read | Listen (8:53)
The Face on Mars Revealed
Skeptoid #97
April 22, 2008
Read | Listen (9:30)
What's Wrong with The Secret
Skeptoid #96
April 15, 2008
Read | Listen (10:26)
Bend Over and Own Your Own Business
Skeptoid #95
April 8, 2008
Read | Listen (10:49)
Newest
#1 -
The Detoxification Myth
Read | Listen
#2 -
An Evolution Primer for Creationists
Read | Listen
#3 -
Religion as a Moral Center
Read | Listen
#4 -
World Trade Center 7: The Lies Come Crashing Down
Read | Listen
#5 -
Killing Faith: Deconstructionist Christians
Read | Listen
#6 -
Super Sized Fast Food Phobia
Read | Listen
#7 -
New Age Energy
Read | Listen
#8 -
Blood for Oil
Read | Listen
[Valid RSS]
ZIP Code Database