Sin: What's It Good For?
What's the point?
Filed under Religion
| Skeptoid #09 November 26, 2006 Podcast transcript | Listen | Subscribe Also available in Japanese |
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By Brian Dunning, Skeptoid Podcast
Episode
09 , November 26, 2006
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/
4009
This week, I'm going to put on my burgundy velvet robe, fill my martini glass, and observe that bastard stepchild of the value system: Sin.
Sin is an interesting thing. A sin is something you're not supposed to do, according to a given set of religious restrictions. Sins are not necessarily illegal. Sins are not necessarily wrong. Sins don't necessarily harm anyone. In fact, many sins can be completely, entirely harmless, like the thinking of impure thoughts. So what's the problem? Why are sins bad?
I guess that all depends on whose definition of "bad" you use. For example, if you're a Muslim, it's sinful to get urine on yourself. The rest of us follow this commandment pretty strictly too, but we certainly wouldn't consider the odd dribble to be sinful. Buddhists consider skeptical doubt to be a sin (though they call it a hindrance), but doubt certainly isn't a problem for Christians or Muslims. Most Christians consider polygamy to be sinful, but it's the rule for most of Africa and the East. So there's no one clear yardstick for determining what's sinful or not. It depends completely upon the religious context. Outside of a religious context, the word sin is, for all practical purposes, meaningless.
Christians in particular consider everyone to be sinful, regardless of their performance. They call this "original sin", and it's essentially a negative blot on your report card immediately upon birth. Since Adam and Eve had the gall to eat some fruit that was offered to them, you and I and everyone else are considered guilty by association and are thus fundamentally bad people, according to strict Christian doctrine.
Christians also have to deal with "mortal sins." A mortal sin is one that, if left unrepented, sends you to hell when you die. Christians don't maintain a list of what types of sins guarantee you a date with the devil, instead they lay out some general rules. The big sins, like murder and adultery, put you on the fast track. Mortal sins have to be done deliberately. If you simply forget to go to church, accidentally put on a condom, or unintentionally catch a glance of a hot girl out of the corner of your eye, such sins are called venial sins and you can get away with them. But if you do them deliberately — blow off church on purpose in order to saw some extra logs on Sunday morning, wear the condom on purpose, or deliberately stare at the hot girl with impure thoughts — they are mortal sins. If you do things like this regularly, strict Christians consider that you are hellbound for sure. There are probably a lot of human males who needn't bother wearing their jackets for their burial.
Worst of all is the "eternal sin" - to deny God, which cannot be forgiven. Those considering an eternal sin might as well lose a fiddling contest to Satan right now. The punishment for an eternal sin is the same as for a mortal sin; the difference is that there's no opportunity to be forgiven and get out of it. It's sort of like being on death row in a state where the governor doesn't have a telephone.
When you eliminate activities that injure others or are otherwise wrong, there are still items on the sin list: basically a long list of victimless crimes. This is where the fun begins for those of us not hampered by religious restrictions.
Take social relationships, including plural marriages, same sex marriages, and anyone living together or having sex outside of wedlock. It doesn't hurt anyone, everyone involved has a great time, and it's mutually fulfilling for all participants. But those activities are all pretty high on the sin list. Take it out of a religious context, and suddenly there's nothing wrong with it. Polyamory is also a victimless crime that for some reason is considered sinful: wife swapping, swinging, hedonism, group sex parties, and open marriages are things that all the participants enjoy behind closed doors. Where's the harm?
Straight sex between married partners is all right, so long as it never extends to include masturbation, fetishism, lust, or impure thoughts. "Have to stop a minute, Mabel, I started to feel a little lusty."
The list of sins is not static: it's even been updated to include cybersex. Using a computer in some way to enhance sexual stimulation is sinful. This includes a video chat session with your spouse when one of you is traveling. That makes a lot of sense.
Drunkenness and tobacco are big on the sin list. This one's just plain counterproductive. Who among us doesn't appreciate an evening at the club in an overstuffed leather chair, with a martini and a fine cigar, talking politics and blasphemy. Throw in some profanity (which, fortunately, I don't see on the list of sins), and you've got the perfect evening. Drunkenness and tobacco are fundamental to healthy male adulthood. Frankly, I don't even know how I'd be able to conduct a proper board meeting without these accoutrements.
Idolatry is another sin that would be hard for me to live without. Idolatry doesn't necessarily relate to graven images or statues of other gods; idolatry is the practice of loving anything or anyone more than you love God. For me, the brand names Porsche and Jeep are hard to get past. I do attend church every Sunday morning: My temple of worship is a rectangle at the beach measuring 8 meters by 16 meters and involves the hitting of a synthetic leather ball at other worshippers. And since I cannot honestly say that there are any supernatural invisible flying magicians whom I love more than my own family, idolatry is definitely a sin that I need to commit every minute of every day, as much as I need to draw breath.
Hate and anger are sins. I don't really hate anyone and I don't get angry very often. About the only thing that gets me angry is when I hear the worst of the bad news from the world: children being abused or murdered, and genocides. Apparently, the world's major religions think that I should go to hell because those things make me angry. I'd have to say this is one case where the world's major religions can kiss my ass. I respect how the Amish can overlook these crimes and offer loving forgiveness to even these criminals, but I'll save my applause for the inmates who beat Jeffrey Dahmer's head to death against a prison toilet.
Lying. This one's tough. I don't know how anyone can claim that they don't practice this sin every day, no matter how religious they are. Have you ever told anyone that you can't go somewhere, or can't do something, when the truth is you simply didn't want to? You're a liar. You ever stop talking about someone when they entered the room, to deceive them into thinking you weren't talking about them? You're a liar. Ever give someone one of those quick fake smiles when you pass them in the hall — as if seeing them makes you happy? You're a liar. Lies don't have to be spoken and they are usually not malicious, but they're still lies. We all do it, all day, every day. Lying is a fundamental of politeness and a pillar of good behavior.
The truth is the concept of sin has no place in the lives of intelligent adults in modern society. Politeness, honesty, industry, and simply being yourself will take you a lot further. I say to the religious people: Keep your arbitrary restrictions, and your hateful belief that I should go to hell, to yourselves.
© 2006 Skeptoid Media, Inc.
References & Further Reading
Anderson, Gary A. Sin: a History. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2009.
de Waal, Frans. Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2009.
Feldman, Fred. Pleasure and the Good Life: Concerning the Nature, Varieties, and Plausibility of Hedonism. New York: Oxford University Press, USA, 2006.
Kurtz, Paul (editor). Science and Ethics: Can Science Help Us Make Wise Moral Judgments? Amherst: Prometheus Books, 2007.
Livingstone, E. A. The Concise Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. New York: Oxford University Press Inc, 2000.
Manning, Henry Edward. Sin and Its Consequences. Charlotte, NC: TAN Books & Publishers, 1986.
Portmann, John (Editor). In Defense of Sin. New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2003.
Thera, Nyanaponika. "The Five Mental Hindrances and Their Conquest." Wheel. 1 Jan. 1993, Volume 26.
Reference this article:
Dunning, Brian.
"Sin: What's It Good For?" Skeptoid Podcast. Skeptoid Media, Inc.,
26 Nov 2006. Web.
4 Feb 2012. <http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4009>
Discuss!
5 most recent comments | Show all 126 comments
Remember, you should always read with skepticism the comments of anyone too lame to put their real name & city.
Maybe I should give up.
Henk V, Sydney Australia
September 13, 2011 4:47am
"The punishment for an eternal sin is the same as for a mortal sin; the difference is that there's no opportunity to be forgiven and get out of it."
This is simply an untrue statement. If you were to take the Bible's stance on sin (which you seem to be setting out to disprove) then you would understand that the entire message is that you CAN be forgiven of eternal sin. The Bible makes it clear that at any point throughout your entire life you can ask for forgiveness. For most of us I think that's more than enough time.
Of course, if you were to die and face eternal judgement, every single person would like that opportunity to repent of their eternal sin and be saved. But, to be honest, this seems more unfair than condemnation.
Just my 2 cents.
Keenan, Columbus, OH
October 07, 2011 10:18am
Keenan, depends on which part of the bible you read. It actually depends on which epistle you read.
More frighteningly, it depends on which verses within which epistle you read.
I am addressing the concept of sin we currently argue within and across dogma/s (yours and we cultural christians)in lieu of truly reading back and seeking the advise of literature experts in advise only.
I can see only that many authors had many interpretations of how christianity and behaviour should be. This is what appears to be bundled together as a corpus christianity.
I spotted a slight mis-interpretation by Muddie on August 31 and will inform him.
Cultural christian? I love going to mass, I love the community and I love participating in observance of holidays.
I don't believe a bar of this "god" business.
Pho, Gerringong (the not so Brave) Australia
October 14, 2011 8:56pm
At work, so no time to read all the comments here (listen to Skeptoid to stay awake all day, almost through them all!). This episode seems to mistake Catholics and Christians. Christians don't have the "rules" to follow, such as no condoms etc, or that there is a bigger sin than any other (never seen any of that in the Bible anyway, or not when read in context, which seems to be not very often on many things).
As mentioned the only non forgivable sin is forgiven when that sin stops, bit of a mind bender that might keep me awake longer.
Once again this podcast seems to stay pretty objective on the issues and doesn't attack any particular side, although a bit left field of what I'm used to with skeptoid. Just wanted to make sure that stuff was pointed out
Stuart, Wollongong, Australia
January 22, 2012 8:24pm
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There's actually a problem with the whole "it doesn't hurt anyone" argument: People DO get hurt. Nobody pays for their sins alone.
From an evolutionary standpoint, we are a monogamous species. Seriously. It has to do with our brains and privates. Bigger brains means that the kids need more parental attention and more time to develop. Kids need both parents for proper development. So the evolutionary response was to get the guy to actually stick around. Compare our nethers to those of a male chimp. Human males have to be involved in sex a lot longer for the female to be satisfied, which results in connections, which result in two parents.
Sex creates a connection between the two participants. It's not just physical, either. If there's one thing Hollywood actually gets right about sex, it's that you DO become attached to the person you do it with. And relationships require commitment in order to work and last through the years.
As for drugs and alcohol... I don't know about the former (I avoid it myself), but drinking isn't a sin. Paul wrote to Timothy in one of his letters that the latter should drink a little wine to settle his stomach and for his constant illnesses. Lack of moderation is usually a bad idea, though, because drunk people tend to say or do stupid things.
Lying hurts. Period. You don't like being lied to, and you're lying if you say you don't care. Personally, I don't believe you need to lie to be polite.
That's just me, though.
Wolfgang, Georgia, USA
September 12, 2011 4:03pm