Sin: What's It Good For?
What's the point?
Filed under Religion
| Skeptoid #09 November 26, 2006 Podcast transcript | Listen | Subscribe Also available in Japanese |
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By Brian Dunning, Skeptoid Podcast
Episode 09, November 26, 2006
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4009
This week, I'm going to put on my burgundy velvet robe, fill my martini glass, and observe that bastard stepchild of the value system: Sin.
Sin is an interesting thing. A sin is something you're not supposed to do, according to a given set of religious restrictions. Sins are not necessarily illegal. Sins are not necessarily wrong. Sins don't necessarily harm anyone. In fact, many sins can be completely, entirely harmless, like the thinking of impure thoughts. So what's the problem? Why are sins bad?
I guess that all depends on whose definition of "bad" you use. For example, if you're a Muslim, it's sinful to get urine on yourself. The rest of us follow this commandment pretty strictly too, but we certainly wouldn't consider the odd dribble to be sinful. Buddhists consider skeptical doubt to be a sin (though they call it a hindrance), but doubt certainly isn't a problem for Christians or Muslims. Most Christians consider polygamy to be sinful, but it's the rule for most of Africa and the East. So there's no one clear yardstick for determining what's sinful or not. It depends completely upon the religious context. Outside of a religious context, the word sin is, for all practical purposes, meaningless.
Christians in particular consider everyone to be sinful, regardless of their performance. They call this "original sin", and it's essentially a negative blot on your report card immediately upon birth. Since Adam and Eve had the gall to eat some fruit that was offered to them, you and I and everyone else are considered guilty by association and are thus fundamentally bad people, according to strict Christian doctrine.
Christians also have to deal with "mortal sins." A mortal sin is one that, if left unrepented, sends you to hell when you die. Christians don't maintain a list of what types of sins guarantee you a date with the devil, instead they lay out some general rules. The big sins, like murder and adultery, put you on the fast track. Mortal sins have to be done deliberately. If you simply forget to go to church, accidentally put on a condom, or unintentionally catch a glance of a hot girl out of the corner of your eye, such sins are called venial sins and you can get away with them. But if you do them deliberately — blow off church on purpose in order to saw some extra logs on Sunday morning, wear the condom on purpose, or deliberately stare at the hot girl with impure thoughts — they are mortal sins. If you do things like this regularly, strict Christians consider that you are hellbound for sure. There are probably a lot of human males who needn't bother wearing their jackets for their burial.
Worst of all is the "eternal sin" - to deny God, which cannot be forgiven. Those considering an eternal sin might as well lose a fiddling contest to Satan right now. The punishment for an eternal sin is the same as for a mortal sin; the difference is that there's no opportunity to be forgiven and get out of it. It's sort of like being on death row in a state where the governor doesn't have a telephone.
When you eliminate activities that injure others or are otherwise wrong, there are still items on the sin list: basically a long list of victimless crimes. This is where the fun begins for those of us not hampered by religious restrictions.
Take social relationships, including plural marriages, same sex marriages, and anyone living together or having sex outside of wedlock. It doesn't hurt anyone, everyone involved has a great time, and it's mutually fulfilling for all participants. But those activities are all pretty high on the sin list. Take it out of a religious context, and suddenly there's nothing wrong with it. Polyamory is also a victimless crime that for some reason is considered sinful: wife swapping, swinging, hedonism, group sex parties, and open marriages are things that all the participants enjoy behind closed doors. Where's the harm?
Straight sex between married partners is all right, so long as it never extends to include masturbation, fetishism, lust, or impure thoughts. "Have to stop a minute, Mabel, I started to feel a little lusty."
The list of sins is not static: it's even been updated to include cybersex. Using a computer in some way to enhance sexual stimulation is sinful. This includes a video chat session with your spouse when one of you is traveling. That makes a lot of sense.
Drunkenness and tobacco are big on the sin list. This one's just plain counterproductive. Who among us doesn't appreciate an evening at the club in an overstuffed leather chair, with a martini and a fine cigar, talking politics and blasphemy. Throw in some profanity (which, fortunately, I don't see on the list of sins), and you've got the perfect evening. Drunkenness and tobacco are fundamental to healthy male adulthood. Frankly, I don't even know how I'd be able to conduct a proper board meeting without these accoutrements.
Idolatry is another sin that would be hard for me to live without. Idolatry doesn't necessarily relate to graven images or statues of other gods; idolatry is the practice of loving anything or anyone more than you love God. For me, the brand names Porsche and Jeep are hard to get past. I do attend church every Sunday morning: My temple of worship is a rectangle at the beach measuring 8 meters by 16 meters and involves the hitting of a synthetic leather ball at other worshippers. And since I cannot honestly say that there are any supernatural invisible flying magicians whom I love more than my own family, idolatry is definitely a sin that I need to commit every minute of every day, as much as I need to draw breath.
Hate and anger are sins. I don't really hate anyone and I don't get angry very often. About the only thing that gets me angry is when I hear the worst of the bad news from the world: children being abused or murdered, and genocides. Apparently, the world's major religions think that I should go to hell because those things make me angry. I'd have to say this is one case where the world's major religions can kiss my ass. I respect how the Amish can overlook these crimes and offer loving forgiveness to even these criminals, but I'll save my applause for the inmates who beat Jeffrey Dahmer's head to death against a prison toilet.
Lying. This one's tough. I don't know how anyone can claim that they don't practice this sin every day, no matter how religious they are. Have you ever told anyone that you can't go somewhere, or can't do something, when the truth is you simply didn't want to? You're a liar. You ever stop talking about someone when they entered the room, to deceive them into thinking you weren't talking about them? You're a liar. Ever give someone one of those quick fake smiles when you pass them in the hall — as if seeing them makes you happy? You're a liar. Lies don't have to be spoken and they are usually not malicious, but they're still lies. We all do it, all day, every day. Lying is a fundamental of politeness and a pillar of good behavior.
The truth is the concept of sin has no place in the lives of intelligent adults in modern society. Politeness, honesty, industry, and simply being yourself will take you a lot further. I say to the religious people: Keep your arbitrary restrictions, and your hateful belief that I should go to hell, to yourselves.
© 2006 Skeptoid Media, Inc.
References & Further Reading
Anderson, Gary A. Sin: a History. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2009.
de Waal, Frans. Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2009.
Feldman, Fred. Pleasure and the Good Life: Concerning the Nature, Varieties, and Plausibility of Hedonism. New York: Oxford University Press, USA, 2006.
Kurtz, Paul (editor). Science and Ethics: Can Science Help Us Make Wise Moral Judgments? Amherst: Prometheus Books, 2007.
Livingstone, E. A. The Concise Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. New York: Oxford University Press Inc, 2000.
Manning, Henry Edward. Sin and Its Consequences. Charlotte, NC: TAN Books & Publishers, 1986.
Portmann, John (Editor). In Defense of Sin. New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2003.
Thera, Nyanaponika. "The Five Mental Hindrances and Their Conquest." Wheel. 1 Jan. 1993, Volume 26.
Reference this article:
Dunning, B.
"Sin: What's It Good For?" Skeptoid Podcast. Skeptoid Media, Inc.,
26 Nov 2006. Web.
20 May 2013. <http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4009>
Discuss!
10 most recent comments | Show all 137 comments
I'm sorry (but not surprised) to see such misinterpretations of God's Word. I understand why it happens though. It's unfortunate that the message of the Bible so often gets judged based upon the imperfect and often misguided people who claim to be followers and not by what it actually says.
The most important message of the Bible is that God wants us to be in a loving relationship with him and with each other. (Matthew 22:36-40) The relationship with God is in no way dependent on us doing anything other than accepting that gift. We can not earn it by being "good". This seems to get lost or misinterpreted by both the ultra-religious as well as the anti-religious. (Which is wonderfully portrayed in the Prodigal Son story, Luke 15:11-32. Notice what happens with both brothers.)
God wants us to realize that we can not fill the desire we all have inside with the things of this world (career, sex, cars, alcohol, drugs, etc...). It is only in him and through him that we can truly & permanently be fulfilled. Denying that truth is at the heart of all sin.
As far as the rules and commandments of the Bible, like a parent who keeps their child from playing in the street, God offers his loving wisdom to keep his children safe from harming themselves as well as others. But it is always our choice on whether we follow that wisdom or not and God loves us unconditionally either way. (Romans 8:38-39)
The Bible should be read and judged on its own merits, not on what people think it says.
Dean W, Fishers, IN
June 04, 2012 6:46pm
Dean: I have an issue with the dichotomy of, "Do all that I say and follow all of my laws and you will be in Heaven with me and it will all be wonderful. Go against that in any way and you get to go to hell forever, no callbacks. Asking for forgiveness means you get to try the first bit again--follow all the laws as written in all ways or burn."
As one famous comedian puts it, "Cake Or Die"
Paul, Canberra, Australia
June 05, 2012 12:40am
I was there with you and thinking along those lines for a long time. I could not come to grips with a God who would say "worship me or burn in hell" either. I have learned though that concept is the spin that our Western Culture puts on God, but it is not who he is.
A couple years ago, I went through some significant life altering events that broke me down and exposed my hard and judgmental heart for what it was. It was out of my need for divine forgiveness that I learned about God's unfailing love and it is through his love and care for me that I have learned to be much less judgmental and more loving towards others no matter what their faith or background might be.
I have found that God is not trying to make us worship him. He will allow us to worship anything we like. He knows though that eventually, the worship of anything other than him will fall painfully short and leave those who choose that path unfulfilled. Hell is simply choosing to live apart from God. What exact form does that take? I honestly don't know. C.S. Lewis said that "the door to Hell is locked from the inside" and I would tend to agree with that concept.
The God I read about in my Bible, and the God I have experienced since allowing him into my life is simply inviting everyone into the eternal and joyful perfect dance of pure relationship with him and with each other. And through his love, he was willing to pay the cost of admittance to that party. All we have to do is show up and dance.
Dean W, Fishers, IN
June 05, 2012 10:15am
Sam and Dean: I read the New Testament. I have no idea what to believe in many cases, as it's not consistent with itself. So I ignore the lot as badly-written.
Paul, Canberra
July 21, 2012 6:51pm
Paul seems to be fairly clever and not have the urge to justify himself WRT to the compendium of mythologies that forms the new testament.
If Dean had only limited himself to the new testament as the hebrew bible gods (emphasis on the plural) are an antithesis to the various interpretations of the canonical gospels and epistles.
Paul, you are right, the new testament does not paint any consistent picture of a god. Dean, you need to go back and work out which god you serve and report back to us skeptics.
You see that I know of the possibly 50 viable and potent gods mentioned in the bible as we westerners know it probably deserve worship. The case for El Elyon, Chemosh and Baal Haddad are just as valid as Yahweh, Ha-Satan or the christ.
So, If someone is to make a case for "the god of the bible" could you please simplify the matter by actually naming your personal favorite and stating why this biblical god should be worshipped by all of us current non "israelites"..
I realise that skepticality normally does not exert itself to religion as it "alienates" the punters. I am not adverse to religion as I am (even as a non believer) a cultural christian.
I do however resent personal attestations as much as I abhor testimony on psuedo science.
If you are going to be an irritating perso like I am, please read the tome that you attest to.
On a lighter note, a restaurant on the corner of this block is called "El Shaddai"
El Shaddai takes large orders...
Read up guys!
Mud (Dr Syd), sin seetee, Oz
November 15, 2012 8:08am
I would love to join you for some half naked or all naked hot tub! Unfortunately i think we probably don't live very close to each other. :(
ashra, mn
January 26, 2013 12:50am
Look, I do the all naked thing in a bath...I'll go halvies in a bus ticket from MO...
As long as its any part of MO NSW. The murrimbidgee sticks to our state systems..
Hot tubs have environmental issues and so does wetting uneccesary garments..
I am not doing very well am I?
What about I cook, fully dressed to your requests and you get here (fully dressed) on yer own..
I may mention the bath... Damn I may even take the fermenter out of the bath..
Mud, Sin City, Oz
February 14, 2013 4:54am
Well, I am too late for this discussion but wanted to put this in for the record. For the record God never sent anyone to Hell, Hell is the choice people make of their own volition when they refuse to accept his free gift of eternal life through His son Jesus Christ. It is not God's desire to play "gotcha" with the souls of people. Actually Hell is the greatest monument to human freedom. Romans 1:24 says God "gave them up to.... their own desires." All God does in the end with people is give them what they most want, including freedom from himself. what could be more fair that that?
Bob Smith, Houston, Texas
February 20, 2013 8:23am
Yup, Bob you said it all.. Its not any God who plays "got Ya!" its the fricken flk who write about the guys who write about the guys who proclaim "God".
Sadly, in out christian culture and our theologies, we really dont know which god that is.
As to JC, from the gospels its clear that jesus doesnt proclaim the same deity that we normally think of.
Profound in utterance Bob... none of us want heaven..
Only a narcissist wants that...
Bob, I owe you a keg of my mind numbing black Bock!
Mud,, at Camp Klogs, NSW
March 15, 2013 7:00am
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I came to the same conclusion about the concept of "sin" as you have & I completely agree with you. Of course eliminating the idea of "sin" eliminates the need to become a member of any group which requires that a condition of membership in the group is to agree sin is something that actually exists. Its funny how the concept of sin is actually the holy grail of most religions.
There are only three principles upon which all religions are founded: 1)Identify a fear, 2)Provide the only escape from the fear, 3)Deny the existance of these three principles.
It took me a long time to understand the third principle and why a fourth principle as a qualifier wasn't needed. Nor,then why the third one was even needed if you already had principles one and two done. But then I got it.
The concepts of "good" and "evil" are the foundations of the concept of "sin". Since neither one of those concepts actually exist either that also disproves the concept of "sin".
Once I realized that good and evil were just ideas and had never existed and never will I was kind of at a loss as to how to think. Literally.
Other languages like French require speakers to think in ways such that everything has a subtle masculine or feminine slant to it.
I realized I'd been taught all my life to think in a simiar way, to think of everything in terms of being either good, or bad. To overcome this subtle language-based predjudice, I realized I had relearn how to think.
J. Miller, East Texas
March 10, 2012 5:53pm