Four Lies About the Measles Outbreak

The Disneyland measles outbreak hasn’t shown any signs of doing anything other than getting worse. As of right now, over 100 cases have been diagnosed in states across America. Most are situated in Southern California, and the vast majority are among people who aren’t vaccinated. Sadly, this is mostly children who never gave their consent to not be protected from preventable disease.

Nobody who follows the anti-vaccine movement, and deals with their arrogance, chemphobia, fecklessness and endless self-delusion should be surprised by any of this. And nobody should be surprised by the lies that have emerged around this measles outbreak. Because that’s inherently what the anti-vax movement is about — lies. Lies about coverups, lies about toxins, lies about the real causes of disease, lies about the danger, lies about who caused it, lies, lies and more lies.

Here are four of the worst lies, but by no means are these the only ones:

(Wikimedia commons)

(Wikimedia commons)

Measles isn’t that bad, so it’s okay that a bunch of kids have it – First, nobody has the right to be the Arbiter of Things That Are and Aren’t That Bad. Terms like “bad” are relative and have no real meaning from one person to the next. But beyond that, the measles absolutely can be “that bad.” While it’s true that the majority of cases are mild and clear up with rest (which can be “that bad” for a family that has to burn sick days at work or spend money putting their child in the hospital), that doesn’t mean they all are. And it certainly doesn’t mean that the worst can’t happen.

Measles is almost comically contagious, and is particularly horrific for babies less than a year old, patients on immuno-suppressant drugs and the elderly – all people who can’t vaccinate for one reason or another. And despite the ludicrous pontificating of anti-vaccine doctors who should know better, it can and does kill. According to World Health Organization statistics, there were 145,700 deaths from the measles in 2013.

Most of these were children from developing countries where the vaccine that’s eschewed by natural granola parents in America wasn’t available. One imagines these parents shaking their heads at the hubris of privileged moms and dads who cast aside the vaccine they so desperately needed because of vague fears about “toxins.”

Prior to the development of the MMR shot, the death toll from measles was catastrophic. Before 1980, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year around the world. The fact that this awful number has been cut to something much less (though still) awful, is a cause for celebration – not for harangues to “do your research” and “get the real facts.” Statistically, measles has a mortality rate of about .3% in the developed world. So when the outbreak in the US hits 300 cases, we’ll be due for a measles-related death. It’ll probably be a child, and almost certainly someone whose parents chose not to vaccinate.

Does it have to come to a dead kid for the outbreak to be “that bad?”

Some people who were vaccinated got the measles anyway, so the vaccine doesn’t work! Nyer, nyer! – The first part of this statement is true. According to Wired, of the 52 measles cases known to have originated at Disneyland, about six were in patients who had been at least partially vaccinated. Four had gotten the recommended double shot of MMR, one at 12-16 months, the second at 4-6 years.

So if vaccinated people still get the measles, that means the measles vaccine is worthless, right?

Of course not. Let’s start with the assumption that almost nothing is 100% anything. No vaccine can be 100% effective or safe because 100% means it literally never fails. And virtually nothing never fails. Getting out of bed isn’t 100% safe. The most benign and well-studied medicine isn’t 100% effective. We can’t think in absolute always and never statements. We have to go with what we know works the majority of the time.

(Wikimedia commons)

(Wikimedia commons)

It’s clear that the MMR shot does – and the Disneyland outbreak proves it. Please note that all of this is utterly off the cuff math, but even with a lot of variables, it proves my point.

If you take the raw numbers of how many people visit Disneyland, it averages about 40,000 per day. Some days it’s more, some days it’s less. It’s hard to find good numbers for the national rate of vaccination, but a CDC study from 2013 gives it around 92% for children ages 1-3 (note this is right on the line of the herd immunity threshold of 83-94%). Let’s extrapolate that percentage to the people coming to Disneyland on a daily basis and say it’s 36,800 vaccinated people and 3,200 unvaccinated people. The measles exposures have been narrowed down to a five day period, but let’s just say all the infections happened on one day.

Using the numbers from Wired, there are 46 known unvaccinated people and 6 known vaccinated people who’ve contracted the measles. So 6 out of 36,800, which is .016%; and 46 out of 3,200, which is 1.4%.

I’m not a math whiz, but one of these numbers is way, way higher than the other. And it’s not the number of vaccinated people who still got the measles. Sometimes the vaccine doesn’t take for whatever reason, but the vast majority of the time it does – and 100% of the time more than not vaccinating.

Measles patients are coming into America via our open borders. Thanks, Obama! – Without getting into a pointless and decidedly non-scientific argument about immigration policy, this just isn’t factually correct. It wasn’t true for the EVD-68 outbreak from last fall, and it’s not true about measles.

Mexico’s vaccination rate against measles has dropped in the last year, but it’s still at 89% as of 2013. Honduras is the same, 89%. For the Dominican Republic, it’s 79%, which is low. El Salvador is 94%. None of these are numbers that suggest massive numbers of unvaccinated children are pouring over our Swiss cheese borders and infecting good old American kids. In fact, there aren’t any measles outbreaks going on in any of these countries, and the only known measles case in Mexico is someone almost certainly infected as part of the Disneyland outbreak. The United States’ vaccination rate against measles, incidentally, is 91%. This is a decrease from the last three years (thanks, anti-vaxxers!), but in line with the South American countries supposedly inundating us with disease carriers.

As of this writing, the “patient zero” for the measles outbreak hasn’t been identified. That is to say that we don’t know who the first person with measles was to walk through the gates of Disneyland during the five day infection period. It’s probably a person who traveled to the US after being infected with measles in another country – most likely somewhere in Europe, Africa or Asia, where measles vaccination rates are lower than the US. That person would only need to spread it to one or two unvaccinated Americans, who spread it to others, who spread it to others, and on and on.

No credible evidence exists the first measles case is from either an illegal immigrant, or a vaccinated child, as anti-vaccine advocate are claiming.

(Wikimedia commons)

(Wikimedia commons)

My child is so special he/she doesn’t need your toxic vaccines – This is the most maddening lie about the measles outbreak, because it’s entirely based on opinion. The other lies, while wrong, are at least somewhat plausible. But to claim that you don’t vaccinate your kid because your kid is somehow “better” than the other kids is the logical fallacy known as special pleading – and also unfathomably arrogant.

When parents say things like “vaccines aren’t for us” or “my kid has a strong immune system” or (and this one is my favorite) “my child is pure” what they’re saying is that their kid is above the rules and they’re better at parenting than those poor sheeple getting their toxic jabs. They believe science and nature don’t apply to them, because they’re “aware” and their kids are special snowflakes.

I hate to break it to these parents, but their kid isn’t special. Neither is mine. Neither is yours. Neither is anyone’s.

Not in that way. No person is above the rules when it comes to nature. Nobody gets a free pass.

Measles doesn’t care if you eat organic, are GMO-free, never go to the doctor, have a strong immune system or have more purity than the other children. Polio isn’t interested in your natural hygiene and ancient remedies. Rubella couldn’t care less that you’ve “done your research” and “woken up.” And if you think these are okay, wait till you get a good look at smallpox, who will end you without a second thought.

These diseases will do what they’ve evolved to do, which is fight to live and make more of themselves. The places they end up living will by and large be unvaccinated people – no matter how pure or special or granola they are. And these people who end up harboring these diseases might very well die.

Because that’s what happens in nature.

This is the greatest lie, not just of this measles outbreak, but of the anti-vaccination movement in general: that some children are so special that they don’t need vaccines to protect them – mom and dad will do it. And nature will vociferously disagree whenever it gets a chance.

So what will it take before there aren’t any more anti-vaccine lies? One measles death? Ten? A rubella outbreak? A smallpox outbreak? Polio to make a comeback? How high will the bodies have to stack up before the anti-vaccine advocates and their enablers in medicine and the media say that this has gone way too far?

What will it take for the lies to stop?

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About Mike Rothschild

Mike Rothschild is a writer and editor based in Pasadena. He writes about scams, conspiracy theories, hoaxes and pop culture fads. He's also a playwright and screenwriter. Follow him on Twitter at
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55 Responses to Four Lies About the Measles Outbreak

  1. Alison Hudson says:

    Well summed up. I’m so glad you mentioned the “my child is pure” line. That doctor needs to lose his license STAT. I’d never bring my own child to him, that’s for sure.

  2. Doug says:

    Two things that are never mentioned when talking about anti-vaccine supporters. Most of the anti people benefited from receiving vaccinations and not catching the diseases. Hypocritical to not give the same prevention to their own children.
    The success of vaccines keeps these anti people from seeing the effects the diseases. They have never seen a child with whooping cough. If they did they would run to the doctor to get their child vaccinated.

  3. Michael says:

    I doubt it Doug. They would probably burn chicken feathers…..

  4. dannysfather says:

    Mike Rothschild is a total idiot! There are lots of statistics going both ways. Spew your statistics. They are all meaningless. 4 facts I know from this article. 1. Mike, you are not a doctor. 2. You have zero first hand experience with Measles and/or small pox 3. You don’t have first hand experience with Vaccines gone Wild. 4. The arrogance you bestow upon others is a reflection of your own bigotry.

    • Eric Hall says:

      Statistic go both ways? Can you show me a mathematical proof of that?

    • 1. I’m not a doctor, nor did I ever claim to be. 2. I have no first hand experience with measles, nor do I want any. Hence why we vaccinate. 3. I don’t know what “vaccines gone wild” means. I’m pretty sure it’s not a thing. 4. Thinking that your child is too pure or special to be vaccinated is the height of arrogance. Protecting one’s self is not.

      • dannysfather says:

        1. Correct, you are not a doctor. 2. Correct, you don’t have any experience.

        That’s my first complaint. You don’t know what you are talking about. You are just regurgitating 3rd and 4th hand information, starting with a strong title: “Four Lies about”

        3. You don’t know what “vaccines gone wild” means.

        All medications have side-effects, even the “good ones.”
        Even Broccoli and Cabbage have side-effects.
        Vaccine zealots always attempt to minimize and even refute the reality of side-effects.

        4. “Thinking your child is too special is the height of arrogance.”
        It’s obvious you don’t have any children of your own. Most parents are willing to guard their children with their lives. Even if they only Think in their minds that you are threatening their children, most parents will immediately stand up and confront you. That’s heroism, not arrogance.

        Doug says:
        “Most of the anti people benefited from receiving vaccinations..”
        and also
        “The success of vaccines keeps these anti people from seeing the effects the diseases.”

        This kind of goes back to my 2nd point. “You don’t have any experience.” Doug, sorry, you don’t have any first hand experience. You are either giving an opinion and calling it hypocrisy, or again repeating 3rd or 4th hand information.

        Unfortunately, you have developed an attitude based upon a fallacy.

        I did experience Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox as a child. I didn’t die, and neither did any of the children in my neighborhood. That’s my 1st hand experience, not something I saw at Slate.

        My son acquired Tourettes after his 2nd MMR vaccine. We presented the proof of Tourettes to the doctor and he gave us a legal waiver for further vaccinations. That’s not because my son is “too special.”

        My son has 1st hand experience to the side-effects of vaccines.

        Mike, reply number 2 implies the side effects of measles is far greater than the side effects of the vaccine. “Hence why we vaccinate.” More accurately, that’s why “You” vaccinate.

        However, unfortunately you have been misinformed.
        Just look at the pharmaceutical website

        For Healthcare Professionals

        Applies to measles virus vaccine: subcutaneous powder for injection


        Local side effects have included injection site burning/stinging, wheal and flare, erythema, swelling, and vesiculation.[Ref]


        Hypersensitivity reactions have included anaphylaxis, anaphylactoid reactions, angioneurotic edema (including peripheral or facial edema), and bronchial spasm.[Ref]


        Cardiovascular side effects have included vasculitis.[Ref]


        Dermatologic side effects have included Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, erythema multiforme, urticaria, and rash.[Ref]


        Gastrointestinal side effects have included diarrhea.[Ref]


        Hematologic side effects have included thrombocytopenia, purpura, regional lymphadenopathy, and leukocytosis.[Ref]


        Musculoskeletal side effects have included arthralgia and/or arthritis (usually transient and rarely chronic), polyneuritis, myalgia, paresthesia, and rarely chronic arthritis; these symptoms may also occur with natural rubella.[Ref]

        Nervous system

        Significant central nervous system reactions such as encephalitis and encephalopathy have been very rarely temporally associated with measles vaccine (occurring within 30 days after vaccination); however, causality has not been determined in any case. A certain number of encephalitis cases unrelated to vaccines is expected to occur in a large childhood population; however, there is the possibility that some of these cases may have been caused by measles vaccine. The risk of measles vaccine-associated serious neurological disorders is much smaller than the risk for encephalitis and encephalopathy due to natural measles.

        Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) has been very rarely reported in children after measles vaccination. Some of these cases may have been due to unrecognized measles during the first year of life or possibly due to the measles vaccination. The results of a retrospective case-controlled study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggest that measles vaccine has had the overall effect of protecting against SSPE by preventing measles with its greater risk of SSPE.[Ref]

        Nervous system side effects have included measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE), encephalopathy, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE), Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), febrile convulsions, afebrile convulsions or seizures, ataxia, and ocular palsies.[Ref]


        Ocular side effects have included retinitis, optic neuritis, papillitis, retrobulbar neuritis, and conjunctivitis.[Ref]


        Otic side effects have included nerve deafness and otitis media.[Ref]


        Respiratory side effects have included pneumonitis, cough, and rhinitis.[Ref]


        A postmarketing surveillance study of measles/mumps/rubella vaccine in Finland during 1982 to 1993 with 1.5 million pediatric and adult vaccinees reported no deaths or permanent sequelae.[Ref]

        Other side effects have included panniculitis, atypical measles, fever, syncope, headache, dizziness, malaise, and irritability. Fatalities have been reported with the polyvalent measles/mumps/rubella vaccine; however, causality has not been determined.

        Health care providers should report any allergic or unusual adverse reactions to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) at 1-800-822-7967 (USA) and the manufacturer.[Ref]


        Are the side effects of Attenuvax better than from measles?

        I’m sure you never read this one:

        Acute encephalopathy followed by permanent brain injury or death associated with further attenuated measles vaccines: a review of claims submitted to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

        references point to:

        • Eric Hall says:

          How many people die from the vaccine each year? How may face serious permanent injury?

          Before the vaccine, how many people died from the measles? How many people faced serious permanent injury such as blindness or brain damage?

          This is an old argument I grow so tired of. Let’s look at other data.

          NHTSA gathers data on all car accidents. Each year, airbags are determined to be responsible for 40-50 deaths each year. Go ahead. Look at the data yourself. Yet, that same data also shows over 4000 people are saved from likely death due to airbags.

          So what do we tell those families who have a loved one killed by an airbag? Should they advocate for everyone to have their airbags disabled because you could be killed by an airbag? Or do we stick with the statistics understanding it is much safer to have the airbag/vaccine than to not have them?

          • luminousjuju says:

            In the US, 10 people died last year. In 2013, the WHO reported 145,700 deaths from the measles worldwide. This is down from an average of 1.2 million per year between 2000 and 2013 because of a major worldwide push to vaccinate people. That’s a 13 year total of 15.6 million children and possibly some adults.

            Not mentioned are the cases of deafness, blindness, eye damage, and more that can result from having measles and surviving or from having rubella/ German measles while pregnant (as happened to a neighbour of mine who has deaf twins.)

            As for mumps, I had that as a child and don’t wish it on anyone. I hallucinated off and on for nearly a week, thanks to the near-fatal fever spells I went through.

            When it comes to more powerful diseases that can be prevented by vaccination, research the story of Typhoid Mary, a woman in the ’20s or ’30s who didn’t know she was a carrier of that disease and walked around her city (NYC, I think) and worked in a restaurant or some such. All the while infecting people who came in contact with her, although she herself had no signs of the disease.

            A recent measles outbreak in New York state was due to an unvaccinated volunteer traveling to the Philippines to help out after the typhoon damaged that nation. The Philippines is a hot spot for measles, and it was much worse after the typhoon due to lack of shelter and clean drinking water.

            The overall costs of dealing with the measles outbreaks in North America is quite high, and takes medical workers away from other jobs they ~could~ be doing. Those costs are adding to your taxes, and if I were in government, I’d be looking to try to recover those costs from people spreading misinformation, lies, and hysteria.

        • Eric Hall says:

          I also want to point out the fallacy of argumentum ad package insert you are making. If you understand the insert is a legal document and not a scientific one, you can better understand how science works –

        • “It’s obvious you don’t have any children of your own.”

          Wrong. I have a son. And he’s fully vaccinated. No side effects, by the way.

          I’m sorry your son has Tourette’s Syndrome. But the fact that he might have shown the signs of it after receiving the MMR vaccine doesn’t mean the MMR vaccine gave it to him. Such a claim demands a much higher standard of proof than you (or any other supposedly vaccine injured parent) have given. Science doesn’t support such a link, and it takes more than telling me “I know what I saw” to do so.

          I’d ask you to stop spamming the comments section of this post with endless links and blocks of text. If you have a point to make, please try to make it concisely and without copypasta.

        • Diogo says:

          The best comment in this entire page. You have all the facts of the side effects here, and people still blindly deny it. Or call it spam or copypasta, as if there was another way to re-write such a big text withouy copy paste. D*******g

      • Clayton Hubert says:

        You are utterly clueless. Vaccination doesn’t work and it’s well proven. Up to you to do the research.

    • Vaccines gone wild???? That is funny and that’s a fact;)

    • SwampWitch7 says:

      dannysfather: please do not get yourself or your family vaccinated for anything ever.

      When preventable diseases wipe out your entire family we will be sure to put your well-earned Darwin Award in a prominent and very public place to inspire your fellow anti-vaccine proponents to follow suit.

      BTW I had the measles when I was 18 years of age. I have first hand experience with measles and I recommend that everyone get vaccinated.

    • Clayton Hubert says:

      Bang on!

  5. dannysfather says:

    Measles-mumps-rubella vaccination timing and autism among young African American boys: a reanalysis of CDC data.

    Detection of DNA mismatch repair (MMR) deficiencies by immunohistochemistry can effectively diagnose the microsatellite instability (MSI) phenotype in endometrial carcinomas.

    Unexpectedly Limited Durability of Immunity Following Acellular Pertussis Vaccination in Pre-Adolescents in a North American Outbreak

    Parents Voice: Children’s Adverse Outcomes Following Vaccination

    Gardasil and the Public Flogging of Katie Couric

    Measles Vaccine Likely Caused Death of Four Infants in Nepal, Authorities Say

    Search the VAERS Database

    Safety of vaccines used for routine immunization of U.S. children: a systematic review.

    Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality.

    Protection against varicella with two doses of combined measles-mumps-rubella-varicella vaccine versus one dose of monovalent varicella vaccine: a multicentre, observer-blind, randomised, controlled trial.
    Within 15 days after dose one, 57·4% (95% CI 53·9-60·9) of participants in the MMRV group reported fever of 38°C or more, by contrast with 44·5% (41·0-48·1) with MMR+V, and 39·8% (33·8-46·1) with MMR. Eight serious adverse events were deemed related to vaccination (three MMRV, four MMR+V, one MMR). All resolved within the study period.

    Could a fever and rash after the measles, mumps and rubella vaccination indicate wild-type measles?

    Sallie Bernard
    Autism: a novel form of mercury poisoning.

    The role of mercury in the pathogenesis of autism.

    Early thimerosal exposure and neuropsychological outcomes.

    squalene msds

    alum msds

    thimerosal msds

    Mercury In Vaccines

    Hypersensitivity Reactions to Vaccine Components
    Thimerosal is the fifth most common allergen, according to the North American Contact Dermatitis Group (NACDG).[15] The rate of reactivity is 10.2% with a designated clinical relevance of 7.2%, making it one of the least clinically relevant of the 65 allergens tested by the NACDG.[16]
    Despite the low clinical relevance of thimerosal allergy, the rate of thimerosal sensitivity has increased during the last decade, probably because of the increase in vaccines administered during infancy. With the initiation of a mass vaccination campaign in Austria in 1981, the administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines for tick-borne encephalitis (TBE) increased from 6% in 1980 to 86% in 2001. The growing number of people immunized to TBE has been concomitant with an increase in thimerosal-sensitized individuals in Austria.[14,20] Bru

    Does thimerosal use in vaccines interfere with brain activity?
    The study, “Thimerosal Exposure in Early Life and Neuropsychological Outcomes 7-10 Years Later,” which was published on July 15, 2011, in the Journal of Pediatric Psychology, looked for a possible association between exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines before birth or in the first seven months of life and neuropsychological function at ages 7-10 years old.
    This study used the same data from the study by Thompson et al published in the September 27, 2007 New England Journal of Medicine. The original study evaluated 1,047 children ages 7-10 and their biological mothers and concluded that ethyl mercury exposure from thimerosal-containing vaccines and immunoglobulins does not affect neuropsychological functioning at ages 7-10 years.
    The authors concluded that the weight of the evidence in this study does not support a causal association between early exposure to mercury from thimerosal-containing vaccines and immune globulins administered prenatally or during infancy and neuropsychological functioning at the age of 7–10 years for any of the other neuropsychological outcomes assessed.
    Results The authors found no statistically significant associations between thimerosal exposure from vaccines early in life and six of the seven latent constructs. There was a small, but statistically significant association between early thimerosal exposure and the presence of tics in boys. 
    The Flu Vaccine–What Your Doctor Won’t Tell You (Or Probably Doesn’t Even Know)

    I can provide more resources if you wish.

    • Eric Hall says:

      You know that nearly every vaccine no longer contains thimerosal, and hasn’t for a long time, right? So most of that has nothing to do with the measles vaccine.

      Instead of copying and pasting information from an anti-vaccine website and attempting to gish gallop the conversation, start with one study you feel is profound so we can respond in a reasonable amount of time.

      • dannysfather says:

        Hi Eric,

        It seems you didn’t read any of the articles. I didn’t copy and paste titles. I read each claim as much as I could. After 5 hours my wife was complaining.

        Here’s a professional article, in a professional journal, and includes 35 references, graphs, and the methods used.

        JAMA Psychiatry
        Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to California’s Developmental Services System Mercury in Retrograde

        “Context: Previous analyses of autism client data reported to the California Department of Developmental Services (DDS) have been interpreted as supporting the hypothesis that autism is caused by exposure to the preservative thimerosal, which contains ethylmercury. The exclusion of thimerosal from childhood vaccines in the United States was accelerated from 1999 to 2001. The Immunization Safety Review Committee of the Institute of Medicine has recommended surveillance of trends in autism as exposure to thimerosal during early childhood has decreased.

        Objective: To determine whether trends in DDS autism client data support the hypothesis that thimerosal exposure is a primary cause of autism.”

        • Eric Hall says:

          You keep posting link after link without context or comment. If your purpose is simply to spread nonsense from sites like Mercola, the conversation will not be very productive. Now, if you have a specific study which you want addressed, feel free to put the link in the comments along with some context.

          But, again, in general, your comments all seem to center around thimerosal. If that is your concern, it is no longer used in any vaccines except for the multi-dose vials of flu vaccines, and that is even being phased out. If your concern about it is something else, please state your concern and someone can address that concern for you.

          • It seems to me that Dannysfather’s standpoint arises from a singular even, the development of his son’s Tourettes Syndrome following vaccination. That would have been very distressing for him and his family and I can fully empathise with his position. However it would be more instructive if he were to provide the original evidence, other than correlation, that led him to adopt his present point of view. What I appear to be reading at the moment is a case of ‘post hoc, ergo propter hoc’ followed by selective research to confirm that bias.

        • The most objective research shows- Systematic reviews of the epidemiologic studies of autism have found evidence that changes in case definition and increased awareness account for much of the apparent increase in the prevalence of autism.
          The current evidence-
          Overview — The pathogenesis of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is incompletely understood. The general consensus is that ASD has a genetic etiology, which alters brain development, affecting social and communication development and leading to restricted interests and repetitive behavior [36,75]. Supporting this is the “epigenetic theory”, in which an abnormal gene is turned “on” early in fetal development and affects the expression of other genes that are not mutated themselves [76,77].

          Genetic factors — There is increasing evidence for the role of genetic factors in the etiology of ASD [36,50,51]. Evidence for the strong genetic contribution to development of ASD is derived from the following observations [36]:

          ●Unequal sex distribution, with 4:1 male predominance (see ‘Prevalence’ above)
          ●Increased prevalence in siblings of patients with ASD compared with the general population (see ‘Rate in siblings’ above)
          ●High concordance rate among monozygotic twins (36 to 96 percent) [46,78-83]
          ●Increased risk of ASD with increasing relatedness; in a large population based study, the cumulative risk of ASD by age 20 years was approximately 3 percent for cousins, 7 percent for paternal half-siblings, 9 percent for maternal half-siblings, 13 percent for full siblings and dizygotic twins, and 59 percent for monozygotic twins [46]

          All the neurological and developmental data shows that autism is present at fetal stage pre-birth. Despite all the claims autism is a congenital disorder it is not coming from vaccines mercury or any other childhood environmental factor.

        • your quote “The exclusion of thimerosal from childhood vaccines in the United States was accelerated from 1999 to 2001. The Immunization Safety Review Committee of the Institute of Medicine has recommended surveillance of trends in autism as exposure to thimerosal during early childhood has decreased.”
          It was from 2001
          “The committee concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism. The committee also concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism. The committee further finds that potential biological mechanisms for vaccine-induced autism that have been generated to date are theoretical only.
          The committee does not recommend a policy review of the current schedule and recommendations for the administration of either the MMR vaccine or thimerosal-containing vaccines.”
          So you post old links that fit you preconceived idea to discard current opinion by the same body.
          That is what Eric is talking about. No context and WRONG.

        • Tuaim says:

          Hi Dannysfather, it does no good to recamp someone. They will bitch slap you into submitting to their belief. Fall upon calling names such as “you’re stupid”. I have studied bio and org chem. And I can tell you that vaccines bear the same misuse of anything powerful in the wrong hands.

          I remember WHO using a vaccine to sterilize Haitian girls. The crazy ‘accident’ with the live SARS culture going to Bosnia, no less. Just in time for political mayhem.

          OK, so someone says thimerosal is no longer used, so what? As long as we have a central source of vaccines, Something has to be used to preserve them in shipping.

          By the way, yes I do remember mumps, measles and chicken pox. In fact, I had them all. What I don’t remember is anyone dying of them. Whooping cough was a right of passage in the the great white north. Over vaccination has ruined the reputation of vaccines and spawned bigger bugs that we want to vaccinate against? Where is the finish line here? I don’t see it.

          How do we trust vaccines after learning Monsanto used us as guinea pigs for twenty years without our common knowledge?
          The chip in the syringe thing, it scares the hell out of most folk.

          In summation; We now have super bugs and vaccine resistant humans. That is the result of placing, knowledge over wisdom, profits over all else, and elitists over others.

          The sad part is that what we are vaccinating against is the results of over industrializing the Earth. None of these diseases existed in pre Columbian populations. Not even the common cold. If we could get the little piggies to clean up their little corner of the barnyard, we could all rest easier.

          • Wow I never seen anyone pack so many wrong and factually incorrect things into one statement.
            First of all name one case of vaccine resistant anything for any vaccine. Resistance is a property of bacteria in response to antibiotics not vaccines. Although virus do mutate they do it a a part of their replication not as a part of response to immune system. Vaccines don’t do anything to the disease they change how your immune system identifies the virus. They have no direct effect on the organism, like antibiotics do. Put a antibiotic in a petri dish it will slow bacterial growth, put a vaccine in a viral culture it will do nothing. You lack a complete and utter knowledge of biochemistry I recommend you take them again or get a refund. As to the rest of your statements they are equally nonsensical.

          • Eric Hall says:

            Yeah – mumps – infertility, meningitis, etc….no big deal for those that have those complications…Your anecdote trumps them all.

          • Tuaim says:

            So what? The fact remains that people don’t trust vaccines because of the load of BS that rides in with it.. You don’t think their are vaccine resistant bugs? How about flesh eating strep? Vaccines are very specific, having a wholesale vaccination program is a bit of the dart game. Especially given the high rates of mutations in our chemically overdosed environment.

            I know the value of a properly administrated vaccination program. I have seen the demise of chicken pox, and other fecal spawned diseases. I have also seen resistant strains emerge that are indeed vaccine resistant. New strains of TB for instance. Polio vaccine was a great life saver, but the political shenanigans that preceded that vaccination was epic. And only too telling of the over indulged vaccination circus that followed.

            A vaccination against stupid would be far more life saving. War? Encroachment? Greed? Imotions? These are all buggy things as well. Or how about a vaccine against the world’s most dangerous buggy word? Mine!

            If their are no vaccine resistant bugs, then why is it that a certain percentage of the vaccinated population gets the bug anyway? In my case, I actually get the flue from the vaccine. I’m scared to get an ebola vaccine.

            We’re all different. I’m holding out for the designer meds that fit the individual and negate nasty surprises.

            I dread giving the power to some to enter everyone’s body. The pressure from the military/industrial machine would be enormous. How could they resist the temptation of experimenting of us? Controlling us? Am I paranoid? Not really, but I believe I speak for many concerned folk.

          • Eric Hall says:

            “I’m waiting for the perfect airbag and perfect seatbelt that won’t cause any bruising or death or will know exactly when to release as to not trap someone in the car. Until someone invents this seatbelt and airbag – I say to heck with all of it. And also, people are terrible – can we cure that first?”

          • Tuaim says:

            Me too, but in the meantime, I’ll be patching holes in the one I have.

          • Again a load of bad stuff here. “If their are no vaccine resistant bugs, then why is it that a certain percentage of the vaccinated population gets the bug anyway?” TO answer your question. The organism is not adapted to the vaccine. In individuals, rarely the vaccine does not inspire the proper immune response. Their immune system may not be strong enough or they may have gone too long without out a booster. IN cases of highly mutable vaccines like the flu the flu constantly changes it nametage. Sometimes mid season and our immune system can no longer identify it based on the blueprint that the vaccine offered. The flu mutates all the time when it infects people it doesn’t matter if it exposed to vaccinated individuals or not. I think you need to take a little time and learn how a vaccine works on a basic level. The vaccine does not directly attacked the organism. It simply teaches your immune system to fight the organism. There is no direct effect on the organism.
            As to the load of BS, not sure what the means. If you didn’t take the time to even learn, in the most basic way, about how vaccines actually work how can you be certain about anything you are claiming here. Maybe you should actually learn a little about vaccines before you start proclaiming them good or bad:)

          • Tuaim says:

            Its been a while since I studied these things. But I’m speaking to the common man. You seem immersed in the industry, or science. So, you speak from the knowledge side of this issue while I’ m speaking of results.
            However, without researching, I would bet their are more targets for vaccines then just the immune system.
            You seem to think I’m against vaccines. That’s not the case. If you’re really a nurse, you should well know how high brow doctors can make a mess of things. Are vaccine administers all saints now? I rail against abuse of medicine, as you should too.

          • “None of these diseases existed in pre Columbian populations.”

            Of all the wrong things you said, that’s almost certainly the most wrong. Do you know how many people died of the flu? How many children and mothers died at birth of causes that are easily prevented now? How a minor infection or cut could kill you? How smallpox killed untold millions, until vaccination wiped it out (for now?) How polio crippled and killed millions until vaccination all but wiped it out? If you want to go back to that world, be my guest, but don’t drag the rest of us – who most certainly don’t – with you.

            Oh, wait, I forgot, everyone in ancient times lived long, peaceful lives free of disease and communing in perfect harmony in nature, which was in no way trying to kill them. At least that’s what my naturopath told me.

          • lilady says:

            “I know the value of a properly administrated vaccination program. I have seen the demise of chicken pox, and other fecal spawned diseases.”

            Nope…not even close. Tell us how chicken pox is a “fecal spawned disease”


            “I have also seen resistant strains emerge that are indeed vaccine resistant. New strains of TB for instance.”

            Do you mean the BCG vaccine, which is given to newborns to prevent miliary TB, including deadly tuberculosis meningitis, in areas of the world where tuberculosis is endemic? It has never been routinely provided to newborns, children or adults in the United States:


            Furthermore, BCG vaccine does not cause multidrug-resistant tuberculosis. MDR-TB and Extensively Multidrug-Resistant TB (XDR-TB) are caused by individuals who do not complete treatment regimens, by not testing for the presence of resistant-to-treatment TB bacteria and by not having the resources to properly monitor active TB patients’ compliance with their treatment regimen, via Directly Observed Therapy (DOT).


            “Polio vaccine was a great life saver, but the political shenanigans that preceded that vaccination was epic. And only too telling of the over indulged vaccination circus that followed.”

            When was the last wild polio infection reported in the United States?

            When was the last wild polio infection reported in the Americas…or in Europe?

            How many cases of wild polio have been reported globally during 2015?


      • dannysfather says:

        I gave 12 citings from the NIH and one from the CDC. Those are not “anti-vaccination websites.”

        This page from the CDC says there’s no connection:

        “Does thimerosal cause autism?
        No. Research does not show any link between thimerosal and autism.”

        “Is thimerosal safe for people?
        Yes. Thimerosal has been used safely in vaccines for a long time (since the 1930s) and has a proven track record of being safe. A variety of scientists have been studying the use of vaccines that have thimerosal in them for many years. They haven’t found any actual evidence that thimerosal causes harm.”

        “Why was thimerosal removed from vaccines given to children?
        Although no evidence suggests … . . .”

        They use: as the research reference. However when you read the article, in the summary it states:

        “Results The authors found no statistically significant associations between thimerosal exposure from vaccines early in life and six of the seven latent constructs. There was a small, but statistically significant association between early thimerosal exposure and the presence of tics in boys.”

        A small statistically significant association isn’t the same as “no association.”

        To be thorough, the Oxford Journal includes maternal pre-exposure to mercury which is included in the assessment.

        The Oxford Journal makes a cross reference to a previous article: September 2007

        Among the 42 neuropsychological outcomes, we detected only a few significant associations with exposure to mercury from thimerosal. The detected associations were small and almost equally divided between positive and negative effects. Higher prenatal mercury exposure was associated with better performance on one measure of language and poorer performance on one measure of attention and executive functioning. Increasing levels of mercury exposure from birth to 7 months were associated with better performance on one measure of fine motor coordination and on one measure of attention and executive functioning. Increasing mercury exposure from birth to 28 days was associated with poorer performance on one measure of speech articulation and better performance on one measure of fine motor coordination.”

        Do you want me to present a summary for each of the 12 NIH references?

        • Just because you lack the scientific understanding to interpret the research doesn’t mean that you get to make up a different result.
          My favorite is the link you posted from NJM and the results stated “Our study does not support a causal association between early exposure to mercury from thimerosal-containing vaccines and immune globulins and deficits in neuropsychological functioning at the age of 7 to 10 years.”

          The CDC and NIH position is clear and the research is clear. Vaccine have almost zero risk. The disease has clear risk. Saying I survived it is nonsense. Millions of people survive car accidents that doesn’t make them safe or advisable. Advocating others take this chance because of personal experience is complete nonsense.
          If you want a medical treatment that is 100% unequivocally safe no chance of anything bad happening there is NONE for any medical problem not just infectious disease.
          Anyone in any medical research that says they are 100% sure about the results is lying to themselves or others it is not just vaccines that is true for any medical research.
          True research is a probability discussion. That is the nature of life. If someone says they have the answer and they are 100% SURE they are ideological believers not scientists. The fact that the research did not claim the impossible means that the results can be regarded as reliable. Period

        • luminousjuju says:

          There are two types of mercury compounds: bioavailable (that is, it can be absorbed and retained in the body) and non-bioavailable.
          The one used in tiny amounts in some vaccines is non- bioavailable: it passed through the system in a few days.

          I forget the quantities in parts per billions, but the entire number of shots one could get in a lifetime amounts to way, way less non-bioavailable mercury than one gets of bioavailable mercury from eating an two average 4-ounce servings of seafood. Or one 8-ounce serving.

          Some seafoods (tunafish, notably) are top predators and so have relatively high percentages of mercury in them, and more as they get older and larger.

    • NoseyNick says:

      MisMatch Repair (MMR) is not the same as Measles Mumps Rubella (MMR).

      There has always been more mercury in a tuna sandwich than a vaccine, but in any case thimerasol has been removed for long enough to demonstrate conclusively that it was never a problem in the first place. Most of the antivaxxers have moved onto other made-up issues, yet with the times! 😉

      I clicked on 3 of your pubmed links at random and in all 3 cases wondered if you had even READ them, as the conclusions seem to contradict yours. I gave up. This seems to be a failed attempt to cherry-pick.

    • lilady says:

      Your first link to Brian Hooker’s “reanalysis” study of the 2004 DeStefano et al case control study, was analyzed by science bloggers and epidemiologists who found that Hooker’s cohort study tortured the data, had poor statistical analysis and utterly false conclusions.

      Hooker’s study was fully retracted by his publisher within weeks, citing concerns about his study format/statistical analyses/conclusions and undeclared conflicts of interest on the part of Brian Hooker and his (unknown) peer reviewer:

  6. Noah Dillon says:

    We should fess up to when the medical community *does* lie: Wellbee may say the oral polio vaccine tastes great, but that’s nonsense. It tastes TERRIBLE.

    • bandit, Albuquerque says:

      I had the polio sugar cube. tasted good, not bad. I remember that day – we lined up in a school gym. I was about 5.

      Most of the anti-vaxers never really studied science. My issue is with the ones who should know better – the doctors who are anti-vax … More proof that 50% of all doctors are below average…

  7. drdelos says:

    Over the past few weeks I have run into dozens of anti-vax people who can recite every known and theoretical side effect of every vaccine ever used by man. The peculiar thing to me is that they don’t know more than one or two side effects of the measles infection itself and it seems to me that those symptoms are much more important to know about.

  8. luminousjuju says:

    Old science saying: “correlation does not imply causation” or some variation of that.

    If it did, then here’s unequivocal proof in graph form that the more money spent on science, space, and technology, the greater the number of suicides by hanging, strangulation and suffocation…

  9. TorchWood says:

    ATTN ALL ANTI VAXers: Check the pickle report. The stats are terrifying. Did you know that absolutely every person in the world who ate even one pickle in 1812 is now DEAD? Clearly there is some conspiracy here since pickles are still available in virtually every supermarket in the US, Canada, Mexico, and even across all Europe, not to mention the internet!

  10. Truth says:

    Most people believe what they choose. As a whole looking down their noses at those who disagree with them. Since they know they’re right, those who don’t think like they do must be idiots, deluded ,or at the very least mentally inferior in some way. No amount of evidence to the contrary will persuade them. They’ll just look for evidence to support what they already believe. Only when or if a tragedy hits home that is the opposite of what they thought to be true will this change.

  11. peter goose mcallister says:

    Hi I found sceptoid just a while ago and think its great ad in this cars I feel I can contribute something real, you see my people are ceadlein-scottish high land travellers and till my late teens we travelled in our familial and communal groups up an down the UK. I was nine when measles struck the campsite in Dyfed in wales, having no fixed abode and minimal school ttendence(2-6 eeks a year) none of us kids(I’m 35 now) were vaccinated .all the adults had had measles so they were OK but they were afraid for us .my three cousins caught it one nearly died. The fear in the camp was awful even at nine I could detect it like a heavy weight on everyone. Some of the older generation spoke quietly about previous outbreaks that decimated the camps when the ere young. Anti VAX ERS wouldn’t be so arrogant if they had been there

  12. Clayton Hubert says:

    Anyways, I hope people that believe in vaccines get as many as possible, and kill themselves off.

    • Noah Dillon says:

      Well, everyone I know and most of the people I’ve ever met all got all their vaccines. And all their kids got all their vaccines. And everyone is fine. And research shows that they’re highly likely to be just fine. And those people without vaccines are more likely to not be fine. I mean, just look at any area with outbreaks of polio, typhus, measles, etc. So your hope for mass death won’t come about through vaccination. I guess you’ll have to wish for a different kind of creepy holocaust scenario.

      • Clayton Hubert says:

        Your dead wrong. Cancer rates are at 56%. Autism is through the roof, along with diabetes, seizures, allergies, MS and many more health issues are through the roof. Increased Vaccination rates are through the roof. Like I said please take more vaccines, especially your children…nothing would make me happier.

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