Should You Take Your Vitamins?

Nice one, see quackcast.com for a more detailed view on "Alt Med".

Peter, London, UK
June 03, 2008 8:20am

I never got why proponents of alternative medicine embrace that term so much. There's medicine and there's everything else. They are the alternative TO medicine.

They act as if "real" doctors would ignore a cure for cancer, if it was something natural like ground up tree bark because they are so beholden to their big corporate paymasters. (Who, for some reason, would also not be interested in a cure that could make them billions.)

Though, according to Brian, the paymasters do pay well, so who knows.

Jeremy Lindgren (vita10gy), Eau Claire, WI
June 03, 2008 8:29am

As always, Brian, well-put! Glad to see you mention that "well, it couldn't hurt" when just taking Vitamins is a fallacy.

As Jeremy mentioned, money is the answer here: if there was something to it, "real" medical industry would make a cure and make billions.

Carlton, Providence, RI
June 03, 2008 9:26am

Thank you Brian, great episode... I wonder what your thoughts are regarding daily multi-vitamins... I take them not to avoid colds or boost my immunity system but rather try to make up for the fact that I know I often come up short in eating a balanced diet.

Carl, Long Beach, CA
June 03, 2008 11:10am

Some very effective medicines were first known as part of herbal treatments. Then we isolated the compounds involved and put them in pills so that we don't have to chew Willow bark every time we have a headache (or whatever).

Logically, if there was anything of merit in "alternative" medicine, the established medical community would have taken it up in the same way, isolated the effective part and made it part of the normal way of doing medicine.

Matt`, UK
June 03, 2008 1:49pm

There is a doco called food matters http://www.foodmatters.tv/?gclid=CIKP_-i32ZMCFSkViQodxHvgZg

might need to copy and paste.

Basically it's the dreaded otherside of the argument, I saw the guy on tv promoting I mean being interviewed about his film I found something fishy when he said that large doses of vitamin c is better for you then the regular treatment of cancer. He mentioned other things too, like raw organic food is good for your heart and something about depression and cashews.

As other people said if there is anything of merit with these treatments the established medical community would take it up.

Courtney Franklin, Sydney Australia
June 03, 2008 4:56pm

Great!
This one came out the same day my monthly subscription of "Nutrition Action Health Letter"* arrived. Coincidentally enough (or is it a conspiracy?), the main focus on this month's article was the claims of multivitamins and the science that supports or casts doubt upon varying levels of dosage. More is NOT always better, as Brian pointed out. The same is true for water. Misconceptions abound!
Thanks for bringing more of this needed information to our attention.

*Published by CSPI (Center for Science in the Public Interest), more info available at: http://www.cspinet.org/

Shawn, London (Ontario)
June 03, 2008 6:05pm

Greetings,

I want to preface this by saying I whole heartedly agree with this episode Brian, a quality, and more importantly accurate podcast as always.

I take a daily multivitamin (Centrium), I just usually don't take it daily, more like 3-4 times a week. Not using to boost anything, I just eat a crappy unbalanced diet. So in that sense I think vitamins can help somewhat to prevent certain self imposed conditions. I'm not touting them as a cure all, and I have no evidence beyond anectodal to back up my thinking, and I'm not even sure what exactly I think I'm preventing. Just my thinking that taking a Centrium, even every day, probably falls under the "it can't hurt" catagory.

Interesting Discover reported on possible "vitamin" or nutritional deficits possibly playing a part - not causing- certain mental disorders. The article reported however that it was hard to get any funding for any kind of study due to the parallels to Scientology's doctrines. I have no idea on how accurate the article was/is, and what other factors were responsible for the lack of research monies. However, I do think the article's points are plausible. Wish I remembered where/when it was....probably someitme after Tom Cruise jumped on a couch.

I'll end this novel now, thanks again Brian, look forward to Skeptoid every week.

-matt

Matt Love, Hastings, Minnesota
June 03, 2008 9:42pm

I agree with you however your statement "ask a medical doctor" may not work in some cases. I've recently been to a primary care physician and a surgeon (for a monor op) who also does cosmetic surgery. Both strongly recommended vitamins and fish oil (I did not have a vitamin deficiency). The primary care Doc gave me a link to a website to order them - the link included the Doc's name so I'm guessing there is a kickback of some kind for the referral. The surgeon sold monthly packs of a mix "he designed" which cost ~$65 US per month and if you get a years supply ~$50 per month.

I guess my point is that if some MDs are "supplimenting" their income with vitamins then they may not be unbiased.

jnc, Charlotte NC USA
June 04, 2008 12:55pm

jnc is right. Recently went to a doctor. He prescribed some drugs but he also "prescribed" some herbal supplements - on a postit note - from the health food store in the reception area of the clinic. Absolutely income supplementing.

Shane, Sydney Australia
June 04, 2008 6:16pm

Now the big thing in cold remedies is zinc. The commercials usually have a quote like, "Clinically proven to reduce the severity and duration of a cold," though I've heard that these studies/conclusions are sketchy at best. Zinc and colds might be a good topic for a future Skeptoid someday.

Scott Kulas, Phoenix, AZ
June 04, 2008 6:19pm

I think that the only vitamin that has been proven to show a positive effect on children is folic acid on the neural tube.
What about prenatal vitamins? My girlfriend and I are getting into a huge discussion. She says that every gyn-ob in America gives women vitamins when they decide to get pregnant. I looked into the studies, and they all look inconclusive. A regular prescribed prenatal multivitamin has * 4,000 and 5,000 IU (international units) of vitamin A
* 800 and 1,000 mcg (1 mg) of folic acid
* 400 IU of vitamin D
* 200 to 300 mg of calcium
* 70 mg of vitamin C
* 1.5 mg of thiamine
* 1.6 mg of riboflavin
* 2.6 mg of pyridoxine
* 17 mg of niacinamide
* 2.2 mg of vitamin B-12
* 10 mg of vitamin E
* 15 mg of zinc
* 30 mg of iron

I'd like to see what Mr Dunning can tell me about this. Are the gyn-obs just being stupid? Or is there actually proof that this will help?

Johnny, Mexico City
June 04, 2008 9:56pm

My husband and I recently decided to start a family of our own. I immediately went to my doctor to ask if there is anything I should test before actually getting pregnant. Because I live in Europe maybe the advice my doctor gave me can be helpfull for others too (my doctor isn't allowed to supplement her income with selling medicines).
She recommended I take a folic acid supplement, but only that!
She informed me that other vitamines can be potentially harmfull for the development of the unborn child, in particular vitamine A. She told me that taking a general vitamine supplement really isn't a good idea for pregnant women. Aspecially when you eat in a balanced way.
I took a bloodtest and they found that I have a deficiency of vitamine B12 (this runs in the family). So I now take a supplement with only that vitamine, and I altered my eating habits slightly. But my doctor informed me that I should always consult her first before taking anything with an active substance in it. Even herbs can contain substances that have an effect on your body. As I am now responsible for not only my body, but also that of a brand new life, I take this advice very, very seriously.

Sabine, Belgium
June 05, 2008 1:23am

I have a quick question, Brian. You mentioned that common wisdom is extra vitamins are excreated through the urin. It's been a while since my last class on human biology, but I do remember that there are two types of vitamins--fat-soluble and water-soluble. I was taught that water-soluble vitamins would indeed pass through my body with no lasting harm, while fat-soluble vitamins would stay in my body and cause all sorts of problems. Which type were you discussing here? Or is this a situation where solubility doesn't matter? I could see that being the case--if you continuously take large doses of water-soluble vitamins you'll raise the amount of those vitamins in your sytem.

Gregory, Alabama
June 05, 2008 6:16am

Top of my mind, only vitamins A, D, E, and K are fat-soluble.

Those tend to accumulate in your body, contrary to water soluble ones, so it's much easier to overdose. If you take a massive dose of vitamin C, your body will only absord some 200-300 mg/day (still a bad idea)and the rest goes down the toilet. It's almost physically impossible to kill yourself with a single dose of vitamin C, having an LD50 of 11.9 grams per kilogram of body weight. Around 800 grams for the average human.

It's equally difficult to slowly kill yourself with it, as your body gets rid of it quite quickly.

Vitamin A though, being fat soluble isn't excreted as easily, so it's 'easier' to slowly kill yourself with it, by constantly taking to much, seeing how it acumulates easier and much more dangerous and if don't notice yourself turning yellow, you can easily kill off your liver. (the top limit of vitamin A is somewhere around 30 times recommended, but you get the idea).

So, while consistently taking an overdose of Vitamin C isn't (very) dangerous, taking to much vitamin A or E is actually very dangerous.

(Disclaimer, IANAD, and it was quite a while ago since I took anything resembling biology. I do have google though.)

Alcari, Reykjavik, Iceland
June 06, 2008 1:21pm

Great topic, and one that I suggested back in the wheatgrass juice discussion.
"How about doing the next episode on vitamin pills."

But you do realize that family doctors -- and I don't mean naturopaths -- recommend daily multivitamins, or even drinking 8 glasses of water per day.

Actually, vitamin C does prevent colds in athletes under stress, so it's not completely ineffective.

Scott, about Zinc...
Sprays aren't worth risking permanent loss of sense of smell, which has been reported. Only a few studies of lozenges were well-designed, and only one or two found any benefit.

Note that Cold-EEZE has no FDA disclaimer, but says it's homeopathic even though it's not.

Ginseng-based Cold-FX is popular in Canada. It not only has the FDA disclaimer, but is also forced to say that its name does not refer to the common cold.

If "immune system boosting" is pseudoscience, why is Hepatitis treated with interferon?

Max, Boston, MA
June 07, 2008 6:32am

If chicken soup promises to cure my cold, and science promises to not cure my cold, which should I "digest"? The mystery of life, the mind and spirit will not be understood by science. The label of pseudoscience is an attempt to elevate science to a level of utility that its application does not deserve. Hey, that chicken soup idea is pseudoscience! Not it's not, it's chicken soup.

Charles Longfellow, Canada
June 07, 2008 7:21pm

I wanted to take issue slightly with the issue you raised about megadoses of vitamin C being potentially harmful.

Posters above have already dealt with the issue of fat- vs water-soluble vitamins, ie that Fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, K build up and can be potentially harmful, but since the bulk of your show was on Vitamin C in particular, I don't feel that it was reasonable to bring this up, however there is still the issue you raised about the Kidney stones.

I have not been able to find ANY study which indicates that VitC dosing has caused kidney stones, and what I found actually points to the reverse, that Vit C helps to break down kidney stones, and is often used in their treatment. Supporting this I found at least 2 studies which looked into this exact issue, and both came out with this result.

Owen Hutchins, London, UK
June 08, 2008 11:25am

I agree with Owen Hutchins. I "researched" the same issue and came up with the same conclusion. I was unable to find any reference to Vitamin C causing any illness except for runny stool.

On the other hand I was able to find an article by the American Heart Association (not some crock wannabe scientist) that admits that fairly high doses of vitamins E and C can be effective in avoiding and aiding in the treatment of heart disease.

They seem to lean more towards the efficacy of vitamin E vs C. A key phrase from the conclusion at the end of the article:

"With regard to the latter, considerable evidence now suggests that oxidants are involved in the development and clinical expression of coronary heart disease and that antioxidants may contribute to disease resistance. Consistent with this view is epidemiological evidence indicating that greater antioxidant intake is associated with lower disease risk. Although this increased antioxidant intake generally has involved increased consumption of antioxidant-rich foods, some recent observational studies have suggested the importance of levels of vitamin E intake achievable only by supplementation."

Read the rest here: http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/99/4/591

Kenneth Pangburn, Atlanta, GA
June 09, 2008 7:16am

To Max from Boston

"But you do realize that family doctors recommend daily multivitamins"

Yes, they do. But that's because most people's diets are really bad, especially in the USA.
If you eat a good, balanced meal every day, you don't need any vitamin pills.
I'm both a vegetarian and a student, so I don't always manage to get all required vitamins and minerals, thus I take multivit pills (40% RDI, 100% B12).

And, to contribute to the Kidney Stones debate, I couldn't find anything either that confirms it either. Though Oxolate levels (the stuff that forms kidney stones) might increase, no increase in kidney stones was seen.

Though there is a chance to get "Rebound scurvy" if the dosage suddenly drops steeply.

some source-age:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminC/index.html#kidney stones

Alcari, Reykjavik, Iceland
June 09, 2008 1:38pm

Alcari,

You're right, medical guidelines are based on the "average American", and inexperienced doctors just follow the guidelines and commit the ecological fallacy. As in, "All Americans, even immigrants, eat junk food."

P.S. Brian would probably argue that there's nothing wrong with junk food.

Max, Boston, MA
June 10, 2008 12:02pm

Great episode. One correction from the podcast:
"The simple fact is that nearly everyone who eats anything close to a balanced diet in any developed country is extremely unlikely to have a vitamin deficiency."

This particular statement is wrong:
A large proportion (if not majority) of the population living in sub-tropical countries (e.g. US & Canada) likely have vitamin D deficiency. The main reason is that the primary source of the vitamin is sun exposure, not diet. The amount typically obtained from the diet is very low, and is best obtained from supplements during the seasons of low sun exposure.

Here is a review on the topic from the New England Journal of Medicine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17634462?ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

D. Cuerrier, Toronto, ON
June 12, 2008 9:49am

hmm... Brian, you should keep taking vitamins for awhile. Eventually you WILL get a cold, and you will feel good about beating back the reptilian part of your brain.

And by that I mean the more reflexive part of your brain, not the literal 'reptilian' part that controls the world.

eric thorn, Seoul, ROK
June 23, 2008 1:17am

The TV program, Scientific Frontiers, covered this in one of their episodes:

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1307/features/coldtruth.htm

Essentially, if you take suppliments expect a cold to last a week, if you don't it will last 7 days.

Dr's Rozen and Oz have researched many clinical studies and published empirically based recommendations in several of their popular books.

http://www.realage.com/

Some of it they didn't believe themselves, but if there was proven efficacy they've included it in their writings.

Ultrametabolism is another good book

http://www.ultrametabolism.com/

I did not experience the weight loss, but he makes a very rational case for taking vitamins. For instance, omega-3 fatty acid supplements are extremely beneficial. If you eat salmon three times a week you don't need to take them. Most of us either don't or can't afford to.

Jon, Los Angeles
June 27, 2008 3:01pm

Another great episode, though I agree with the several of the points made in the comments:

1. Most Americans/Canadians don't eat a balanced diet, so some vitamin deficiency is possible, though it's likely not vitamin C.

2. Those who do not live in sunny climates (or go outside) do not get enough vitamin D due to insufficient exposure to sunlight. It's unclear if oral vitamin D supplementation can remedy this, though. (Fiber and iron supplements can definitely help with certain conditions, by the way, but getting enough though diet is better.)

3. Most medical doctors I've been to recommend taking a daily multivitamin, even though I believe such supplementation to be largely useless based on what I've read. A better recommendation (often offered by practitioners of alternative medicine) is exercise, exposure to sunlight, and changes in diet.

4. Many medical doctors prescribe useless medication right and left without being fully aware of its effects. As an easy example -- antidepressants are over-prescribed by almost ever MD, and potential for addiction is just now being fully realized. The point is that medical doctors, being merely human, can be just as uneducated as peddlers of pseudoscience and other quacks when it comes to their recommendations.

bluharmony, neverland
June 28, 2008 12:20pm

Can you do a whole show on Airbourne? It'd be great to get a whole lot of facts that can be used to debate people who swear by it.

Michael, New Jersey
July 04, 2008 11:30am

Try this Scientific American article by Michael Shermer: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=airborne-baloney

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
July 04, 2008 11:37am

While I agree that "The simple fact is that nearly everyone who eats anything close to a balanced diet in any developed country is extremely unlikely to have a vitamin deficiency," the next sentence makes quite a leap, and an assumption I disagree with...
"Thus, there is no plausible benefit to vitamin supplementation for general health or wellness." When did we decide that simply staving off deficiency is the goal of nutrition? I take a variety of vitamin supplements, and have noticed considerable positive increases in energy and mental clarity to list but a few. I'm sure that when toothpaste was first introduced, there were plenty of naysayers who didn't see the point, since brushing with water had seemed to work fine.............I'll keep taking my vitamins thank you.

Kyle, USA
July 26, 2008 2:35pm

Two things:

1, don't sell Vitamin C short, it makes a marvelous laxative in high doses.

2, When you give your examples of Hypervitaminosis, you're comparing apples to oranges. The vitamins you list are fat soluble; C, and most of the rest, including all the B vitamins *are* water soluble and tough to OD on.

PC

Pe, Glendale
August 03, 2008 7:43am

Interesting episode. Where as most of the information is good, true skepticism requires being open minded to all sides of an argument. This article partakes in the same propaganda fallacies that mislead people. It is implied that the mayo clinic has determined that Vit C is of no benefit. That is NOT true. Check the Mayo clinic. I did. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-c/NS_patient-vitaminC
Mayo clinic is undecided and says further study is needed. This after a recent study indicated injected vit may have some benefit. (not conclusive) But lets be responsible and not dogmatic to either side of an argument.

Ken Thorpe, Murphy TX
August 13, 2008 12:32pm

Excellent episode - makes perfect sense. I am healthy, eat a balanced diet, and have always wondered if I needed extra vitamins. I bought a bottle for the first time in a few years and started taking them recently, even after having a blood test at my last physical that showed I had no issues of any kind. After hearing this podcast, I've shelved the vitamins. I feel fine, have been proven healthy by my doctor. No need for vitamins.

However, I do have a question - women who want to conceive and go to their doctor for a check-up are always told to take pre-natal vitamins. Does anyone know if these really have a benefit? Shouldn't evolution have setup women to get all they need to have a healthy baby by eating a good diet? What do pre-natal vitamins provide that are so special?

Thanks,
Scott

Scott, Phoenix, AZ
August 28, 2008 4:44pm

Me thinks you might have to reassess your statement that no medical studies have shown that vitamin C can fight cancer. Within the past week it has been reported that Mark Levine of the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases in Bethesda, Maryland, gave vitamin C to mice intravenously. "The researchers injected immune-deficient mice with cells from three aggressive human cancers – ovarian and pancreatic tumours, plus a form of brain cancer called glioblastoma – and found that vitamin C injections slowed tumour growth by up to 53%."

P. Leroy, Bel Air, Maryland
August 30, 2008 9:35am

Vitamin C is antiflammatory & antiinstaminic. Do your reasearch. Many people claim that vitamins like C just get flushed through your body and you just have "expensive pee". IGNORANCE! Air or water also just passes in and out of you, but you utilize the amounts you need. The C may be passing though your body but while its passing its doing its thing. I can testify that it reduces pain from arthritis... and I have seen this on myself. The test is simple. When I stop taking them for a week I can barely move. But I am talking about good dosages of C here. 2 grams and above. This is a direct effect of C that I notice, that has nothing to do with your "cold" example. Colds are dependant on mostly external factors.
The small amounts of C that multivitamins have, do absolutly nothing to reduce pain or calm down alergies (which I also have reduced because of C).

nights, arabia
September 02, 2008 6:20pm

I do not understand why people want to take a ton of vitamins a day. I have to because my doctor says so. I have a case of anemia so severe that I have to take half a gram of iron a day. It gives me headaches, constipates me, and does nothing for my lethargy. Right now, I am getting tired writing this.

When I forget to take my iron, I have trouble staying awake. Not a bad this when I am at home but terrible when I drive. I have to take the pill every day.

Joseph, Brawley Ca
October 08, 2008 12:51pm

if you drink like a fish like yours truly make sure you take that daily multivitamin :)

Andy, LA
February 16, 2009 4:04pm

HI there.. I'm anemic too but I found awesome iron that has very little side effects and also found out how to get the iron in my system. Floradix liquid iron and metagenics tablets.. both are awesome and I take extra c for absorption and keep anything with calcium away from when I take the iron by 3 hours.. the calcium like cheese or milk fights the iron consumption also take the liquid on an empty stomach. try it.. I bet your levels will come up and you'll have virtually NO side effects.. good luck

Maggie L, Tarrytown, NY
February 23, 2009 4:04pm

"Shouldn't evolution have setup women to get all they need to have a healthy baby by eating a good diet?"

The problem with pregnancy is that the fetus always does its best to get what it needs ... even at the expense of the mother. Supplements are a way to help make sure that the mother -- not the fetus -- never becomes deficient. The big ones my wife heard about were folic acid, calcium, iron and omega-3.

Her doctor specifically told her to take iron after a blood test.

Folic acid needs to be taken while you are trying to conceive, because the benefits generally only take effect in the first weeks of pregnancy, when most women don't know they are pregnant. Thus, all women are generally recommended to take a folic acid supplement just to be on the safe side.

A woman's calcium need rises significantly during late stage of pregnancy, and it can be pretty hard to eat enough food to get all that calcium, so a calcium pill is often recommended.

Lastly, since many seafood choices -- like tuna, farmed salmon, cod -- are now not recommended due to heavy metal contamination, it is recommended to take a fish oil omega 3 pill to make sure you get enough during the latter stages of pregnancy, when omega-3 is crucial for fetal brain development.

Aran Johnson, Oakland, CA
March 14, 2009 12:37am

Yes, take your vitamins:
A - carrots, sweet potatoes, beef liver
B1 - spinach, peas, pork chops, soy milk
B2 - broccoli, eggs, milk
B3 - potatoes, lean beef, chicken, tuna
B6 - tomatoes, squash, rice
B12 - poultry, fish & shellfish
C - oranges, strawberries, peppers, spinach
D - milk, eggs, fatty fish
E - soybean, corn, shrimp, avacado
K - brussel sprouts, leafy greens, cabbage, liver...

Stay away from most restaurants...
Stay away from miracle supplements...
Cook your own food...
Buy locally...
Exedrcise in the sunlight...

AND don't forget your minerals:
dairy
soys
seafoods
green veggies
water, water, water, water...

Joe Boudreault, Hanover, Ont, Canada
May 07, 2009 5:11am

An interesting and well written article but very misleading unfortunately. Vitamin C causing kidney stones has been a theoretical problem that has never been been proven (except the one study you mention, and it is a poorly done study as acknowledged by the authors, showing a slight correlation between supplemental Vit C and kidney stones). Prof Albright in Australia has administered 250,000mg of Vit C to patients over 24 hours and has never seen a kidney stone. You failed to mention that Vit C is water soluble, and the problems you mention with excess vitamins are not (Vit A, D, E) and therefore are not excreted as fast. As for Vit C and cancer, try researching the facts: http://www.pnas.org/content/102/38/13604.full This article shows an excellent kill rate using IV Vit C, as it's impossible to get the required plasma levels orally.

Joe, cooking your own food is obviously better than buying bought food. Be aware however that cooking it will destroy approx 80% of the vitamin content.

Graeme, Thames, NZ
June 16, 2009 1:51am

http://www.salba.com/
http://www.salba.com/articles/article4.pdf

some people think it will solve world hunger. it sells for about $24.99 a pound.

8x more omega-3s than salmon
25% more dietary fiber than flax
30% more antioxidants than blueberries
15% more magnesium than broccoli
7x more vitamin C than an orange
6x more calcium than whole milk
3x more iron than spinach
1.1x more fiber than all bran
50% more folate than asparagus

Cody, CT, USA
June 22, 2009 11:04am

"some people think it will solve world hunger. it sells for about $24.99 a pound."
Those two sentences work counter to one another.
For a food to solve world hunger, it will have to be inexpensive; That particular brand of chia seeds are anything but. While Salba does seem like a fine alternative to flax and bran, I doubt the differences are as pronounced as the website suggests, and it CERTAINLY won't be solving world hunger.

Aaron, Minnesota
July 26, 2009 10:52am

when mentioning Hypervitaminosis, the only cases mentioned in this article deal with A, D and E, which are all fat-soluble. Vitamin C and all Bs are all water soluble and are far less likely to cause Hypervitaminosis. This should be present in the article.

Eric, Oklahoma City
August 11, 2009 5:27pm

Thanks for the link Brian. Interesting stuff, I feel the same way about Airborne, glad you brought it to light.
What are your thoughts on EmergenC? Same as Airborne? Discuss?

Marla, Laguna Niguel, CA
December 15, 2009 9:58am

By googling around for chia seeds I found a pound for a much more reasonable $11. And after a bit more googling to make sure it wasn't as scammy as that other post sounded, I think I might actually try these out. Sounds like a healthy way to get iron that I don't get from meat, which I do supplement, cause I don't eat leafy greens on nearly as regular a basis as I should.

Sean, Austin, TX
January 23, 2010 2:13pm

I spent these last few years following the books by Kurzweill and Grossman (http://www.fantastic-voyage.net/), buying a lot of supplements to improve my health, but I am becoming increasingly sceptic about their theories.

What are your thoughts about their ideas? Scam? Pseudo-science? Science?

Chris, Dingli, Malta
March 22, 2010 2:36pm

One inaccuracy.

The scientific consensus is currently that overdoses of Vitamin C DO NOT cause kidney stones.

Otherwise, everything was factually correct, but rather dismissive of the idea of taking vitamins in general.

In America, NO ONE is getting enough essential nutrients through their diet to maintain the health that is possible in 2010. 200 years ago, vitamin deficiencies were largely regional. Regions that got plenty of vitamin C from fruits and vegetables were less likely to get omega-3 fatty acids from fish. Likewise fishermen were less likely to get vitamin C.

Nowadays, our fast food diets deprive us of practically any nutrients except for salt, so to assume that a vitamin deficiency is something that very few people have is I think the flaw in your viewpoint here. Given the extremely high rates of obesity and its related conditions, I'd venture a guess that at least 30% of the US population has a minor deficiency in one or more major vitamins. (And sure, most vitamins won't "cure" these deficiencies, but the small doses in a typical multivitamin wont hurt either)

Of interest to your podcast might be the recent studies showing severe incidences of Vitamin D deficiencies in the population. In some skin-types, it may be MORE dangerous to wear sunscreen than not to, merely to obtain some Vitamin D.

Ginger's obviously don't apply. Sunshine is dangerous for you. :-P

Jacob, Melbourne, FL
May 13, 2010 6:16am

I must say, this is the first Skeptoid podcast I've heard that I really took issue with. Not the contention that vitamins prevent or cure diseases - that's utter bunk, except of course in the case of curing diseases caused by vitamin deficiency.

What I take issue with is that Brian focuses mostly on this idea, and then states that it's easy to get the proper level of all vitamins by eating anything resembling a healthy diet.

I'm not a doctor or a nutritionist, but I use a web-based nutrition program to track what I'm eating, on many days fairly obsessively. I'll disclose the site if anyone is curious, but I don't want my first post to seem like spam. Anyway, I am a 31 year-old 6-foot tall male weighing a little over 200 pounds, and what I have noticed is that eating what I consider a fairly healthy 2,000-2,500 calorie-per-day diet, I still get nowhere near the USDA's "Recommended Daily Allowance" of many vitamins, including vitamins A, D, E, Calcium, and sometimes others. I'm talking 40% or less of those vitamins in any given day based on food intake alone.

I take a vitamin supplement because I assume ther is a reason the USDA recommends those levels. I'm curious to know if Brian's research turns up an explanation for this - is the USDA recommendation higher than it needs to be, or did Brian overstate his point on this particular subject?

Chris, Philadelphia, PA
May 26, 2010 7:20pm

Actually, Chris, in Sweden the RDA for vitamin C is between 30 and 60 mg/day (a little more if you're pregnant) while i think the RDA in the US is about 200 mg/day, right? So maybe yours is a little exaggerated or perhaps ours is a bit on the short side, but we're not an unhealthy people, so...
Just a thought.

Simon, Sweden
August 08, 2010 4:12pm

Great, now what am I going to do with this large bottle of Women's supplements I just bought?!

Jenny, Long Beach, CA
September 08, 2010 11:08pm

I don't see why people take such umbrage at the idea that the vast majority of the RDAs for most nutrients canbe obtained in a balanced diet. Most are covered by your five a day fruit and veg, and protien from a sensible portion of meat. The nutritional values are even stamped on most food packaging, in a percentage of the RDA. It takes a few secondsto check you are covering your bases when you do your groceries.

And as for fast food, beef is beef even if it is in a burger and kfc is still chicken. They have the same protien and vitamins as any other beef of chicken, they just happen to be cooked in a greasey fatty way, which is why they are an occassional pleasure not a daily indulgence.

Tom H, Kent, UK
September 09, 2010 10:10pm