The Detoxification Myth

Just wanted to let you know that chitin is actually pronounced /ˈkaɪtən/ (it's Greek). http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chitin has a sample pronounciation. Otherwise, great episode, thanks!

Peter Murawski, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
January 15, 2008 2:30pm

Actually, it sounds unlikely that the footpads are made for chitin, as chitin bandages are very fragile and are usually covered with a second, regular bandage.

And, I'd like to add that there there are several uses of the word "Detoxification". It's also used in drug/alcohol rehabilitation, where it usually means replacing the drug with another medicin to prevent or ease withdrawal.

Other then that, I totally agree. But still, I wouldn't call the people victims, except of their own stupidity.

I'm all for getting dumb people to give you money, and encourage it. I see it as a form of punishment for stupidity.

Alcari, the Netherlands
January 17, 2008 1:54pm

The people that are stupid enough to buy into this crap aren't going to heed the message of this report....I find it funny though.

Danny, Seattle
January 18, 2008 2:37am

I agree that a lot of things out there are for your money, but there is one little detoxification that's actually legitimate: a candida cleanse.

People who have overgrowth of candida albicans fungus (often referred to as yeast) really don't need to spend any money on cleansers; they just have to know that candida feeds off sugars and simple carbohydrates. Cut out sugar, white breads and rice, eat more garlic, onions, and live yogurt, and you're done. I don't want people with candida to think that it's a hoax along with this other crap.

Regarding actual "toxins," however, all you really have to do is take care of your own liver....

Emily, Virginia
January 18, 2008 7:08am

Some stuff here is true, some over-exaggerated.

K, FL
January 18, 2008 7:53am

Sure, some of it is bunk, then again, some of us don't have insurance to go pay a doctor every time we may feel a little sick, even if that sickness lasts for years. I'm not sure if you've looked at how much money doctors charge, but it is not a practical amount to pay without the aid of insurance. Some of us have to rely on "natural cures" and hope that they are not ripping us off.
A lot of modern treatments are simply more efficient methods derived from older natural cures, so there are some valid ones out there. Article would be better if it listed some working methods of detoxification.

Sr. Lopez, KS
January 18, 2008 10:10am

if you truly need to detox. after a hard party weekend. Denatured charcoal will cleanse the blood

it is what is givin in the hospitals
when you O.D. and it workes wonders

you swallow a hand full of them late sat. night and sunday is a little nasty but mon you are 100% as long as you are on a proper vitamin regaiment

Donny, Occoquan
January 18, 2008 10:16am

Fasting is the most effective way to cleanse the body. The master lemon cleanse is the best I've done. I agree most of the detox products out there are junk. I'm curious if the author includes detox teas in his category of a waste of money.

I've tried the foot bath a couple times and am curious where the metals came from if not from my body.

Craig, Asheville, NC
January 18, 2008 10:23am

I wouldn't really trust FDA.

They are known to oppose alternative therapies. It doesn't go along with pharmaceutical industry lobbying as it would decrease amount of 'conventional' drugs sold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Food_and_Drug_Administration#Criticism:_Pharmaceutical_companies_have_excessive_influence_over_the_FDA
http://best-google-videos.com/video.php?csid=125

I am not trying to say that these cleansing pills do not really cause this mess, I am just saying that I am cautious when FDA says something is good or bad.

laki, USA
January 18, 2008 12:06pm

Easy for you to say to go to a real Dr. to recieve medical treatment that is trustworthy. Unfortunately, not everyone has medical insurance or the money to pay for medical treatment. Most of us who use alternative medicines are the ones stuck out in the cold by our own country that has outpriced medical care. Squeezing out the lower/lower middle class from basic medical care. Most of us suffer through our medical issues and try to survive.
I'd like to know the precentage of deaths in this country from major catastrophic illnesses that are the poor in this country. I find it dusgusting that our country is so bent on stopping civil war, poverty, starvation and a litney of other social issues in other countries when our own country suffers from all of the above. Our government needs to take care of it's own before it starts to solve the worlds problems!!!!!!!

Raylyn, USA
January 18, 2008 1:16pm

Good Lord, the resolutely gullible are out in force on this one. Five responses and only one is not full of frothing rage and paranoia. Danny's helpful hints for binge drinking are the most sensible of the lot.

Cambias, Amherst, MA
January 18, 2008 4:53pm

With all due respect to the author, absence of proof is not proof of absence. While it is true that many of the "detox" products available are complete crap, thaere are those "alternative" methods (read as traditional) which do a great deal of good. also, I would like to point out to Cambias that of the responses so far only two involve anything close to frothing rage and those are his and the one right before him. Also, the head of the FDA is the one who has claimed that the FDA is unduly influenced by drug companies so I'm unsure as to how that statement is paranoid.

sarah, New Orleans
January 18, 2008 7:00pm

The body is amazing and will take care of itself. It is call homeostasis. Thanks for calling attention to these charlatans.

Of course, illness and disease happen, and there is a lot we don't know about it, but I refuse to spend any money on alternative medical products that are not proven by evidenced based studies. I am spending my money on a new pair of shoes, a good book, a great meal or fun movie.

Jan, Laguna Niguel
January 18, 2008 7:41pm

"Actual medical treatments will tell you exactly what they do and how they do it." What they don't tell you is that while treating one part of your body, they are usually screwing with another. Doctors only know textbooks - they are very removed from the actual body, and cannot see it in any wholistic sense. Certainly they are great in some situations: removing bullets, sewing limbs back on after accidents... but let's not forget they make their money on humans being sick. I'd rather spend mine on remaining healthy. Make sure you always see a recognised practitioner, because yes, charlatans are scary. The FDA, in its scaremongery, is moreso.

Ingrid, Melbourne Australia
January 18, 2008 8:03pm

To Raylyn,
Many may lack the income necessary to visit a medical doctor, but wholistic "healers" are neither free nor cheap, nor can I see any proof that they do anyone any good.
Any alternative medicine that is theorized to be equivalent to medical treatments without substantial proof is nothing more than a large gamble with your personal health.
Maybe it's just me, but I would sooner visit a free clinic and get proper medical advice than self-diagnose or use alternative medicines that could likely drain my money and leave me no more healthy than I was before.

Melissa, Anchorage, Alaska
January 18, 2008 8:23pm

Running down the entire alternative treatment realm is not helpful to anyone. Western drs have run down many alternative treatments that have now been proven helpful. ie: lysine for herpes and skin/tissue repair. salt water cleansing of the sinus kills and cleans away bacteria stopping sinus infections better than antibiotics. and many others.

Bryan, Gulfport
January 19, 2008 9:11am

"Any responsible person will go to a medical doctor for a blood test to find out for certain whether they have such poisoning. A person who avoids this step, because they prefer not to hear that the doctor can't find anything, is not a sick person. He is a person who wants to be sick."
I disagree with you because I did not want to be sick. I was miserable and medical doctors trained in the best schools could find nothing wrong. Why? Simply because they followed a textbook definition and lab guideline for my illness. They claimed nothing was wrong until, one day I fell so ill that I was hospitalized. All of the sudden, I was sick enough to be diagnosed by one of them with what I had claimed was wrong all along. A natural practitioner finally got me back on my feet and I've never felt better. I feel more comfortable working with a natural MD who can analyze me as an individual rather than most MDs in the world that would look at me as a business. Thus, it is fair to say that the medical practices of textbook medicine are flawed.

Carla, Atlanta
January 19, 2008 2:13pm

Interesting. I went and looked at a list of ingredients on the first in your list, Dr. Natura, and there is no bentonite in it. When I didn't see it there I did not bother researching the others as it appears you do not have your facts straight.

My $.02

James, Denver
January 19, 2008 2:58pm

Indeed, Cambias, they are out on this one.
To all those who feel "alternative" treatments have something to offer over scientific medicine, I have a question for y'all. Would you fly in an aircraft that had been maintained by "alternative" methods?

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour Plain., Australia
January 19, 2008 4:47pm

Where do you get your info? NONE of the mentioned colon cleanse products contain bentonite (clay)in their ingredient lists. Are you just making this stuff up? Sounds like it...Wonder what would happen if YOU got the product and tried it? It offers a money back guarantee, but I don't think you'll need it, as it sounds like you are full of crap yourself! Has Western medicine brainwashed you this much? How about the greedy, money hungry drug companies? They are making money off you, advertising their pills on TV and telling us to "ask our dr. if so and so is right for you", without even telling us what the drug is for! Drugs are the second biggest business in the U.S., brainwashing Americans that they will make their lives better, when in fact the side effects are much more numerous than the benefits of any of the meds. Maybe you should be skeptical about that harsh reality...

Leslie, Atlanta
January 20, 2008 12:55am

So when you, or one of your kids, gets meningitis, you'll just be getting garlic.

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour Plain, Australia.
January 20, 2008 12:47pm

wow! I checked out the DrNatura site and I can't believe people fall for this. The colon cleansing stuff actually contains both pectin and guar gum- with or without bentonite, that would give one gummy stools.
The fact that the first page is covered with histrionics and you have to go further into the site to find the ingredients is itself a clue to the credibility of these jokers.

Amy, Philadelphia
January 21, 2008 1:29am

re VanderLubbe's posts: your logic is fabulous!! very entertaining, keep it up.

Ingrid, Melbourne Australia
January 21, 2008 6:55pm

Thanks, Ingrid. Nice to see a fellow Antipodean here.

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour plain,Australia
January 22, 2008 1:55am

http://www.blessedherbs.com/colon-ingredients2i.html

Bentonite is there. Botton right of the page.

Marcelo, Rio de Janeiro
January 22, 2008 3:43am

My favorite was a trip to a health food store where a clerk suggested a tea to "clean" my liver. I did not even think I had a dirty liver! It had lots of ingredients, but cascara and senna were at the top of the list. Two well know herbal laxatives that would easily lead someone who suddenly produced an increase in bowel movements that their body was getting rid of toxins and their liver was being cleaned!

D.B., Scotland
January 22, 2008 12:00pm

Why did you visit a health food store in the first place? Why not the doctor? What symptoms did you describe to the clerk? Come on, D.B., all the facts please.

PS. These days even doctors know about and acknowledge, in your words, "dirty livers"...

Ingrid, Melbourne Australia
January 22, 2008 4:19pm

"A doctor won't lie to you and say that a handful of herbal detoxification pills will cure anything that's wrong with you; but since that's the solution many people want, there's always someone willing to sell it."

Well thats what happened to me - seems like doctors do lie. You make so many assumptions in this trashy article - my advice go write for rupert murdo - that's of course if you are not alraedy doing so.

Greg, Palm Beach
January 22, 2008 4:35pm

Detoxing isn't a myth just because there are a bunch of fake treatments for it. Any nutritionist will tell you to drink lots of water. Why? because it flushes bad shit out of our systems. There's tons of other things you can do to clean your body, its just that some people like to make money off of other people's ignorance to the facts.

Eric, Detroit
January 22, 2008 10:14pm

Oh,come on!Medical Doctors are the biggest quack assed charlatans out there,pimping hard for the big pharmaceutical companies!!Don't forget to take your 'little purple pill' for the dread disease acid reflux(Egads!)or your friendly cartoon charactered Zocor for depression (suddenly a 'disorder',instead of a common,normal phase of emotion experienced by everyone from time to time)!There is no Wizard of Oz,Folks-the detached guy in the white coat checking his watch really doesn't know that much more than me or you.

Barry, Atlanta
January 23, 2008 1:33am

Not to mention the fact that western medicine loves to "discover" treatments which "alternative" medicine has been using for hundreds or even thousands of years... who'll ever forget the Great Western Discovery of Manuka Honey just a couple of years ago?? As though until then, no one else had ever heard of it.

Face it, practitioners of western medicine are becoming more and more afraid as more and more people are realising their so-called "diagnoses" are the worst kind of guesswork, in aid of lining their wallets for their children's private school education, or that holiday house in Portsea...

"Why fix your diet if you've got Crohn's Disease, when we can get you addicted to steroids??? Stay on that sugar!
Don't worry if you've had breast cancer, we can give you a preventative that doesn't involve the bother of cleaning up your environment. It'll probably give you cancer of the uterus, but we can just remove that. And if, in the meantime, you die of cancer of the uterus, then at least we were successful in preventing the breast cancer from returning. Pip pip - how's your kid's education?"

Ingrid, Melbourne Australia
January 23, 2008 4:34am

There is no question that western medical doctors write bogus prescriptions and encourage the pharmaceutical companies in their quest to create a pill for everything. There is money to be made for both parties when that happens, and its a shame. Still, the medical community, despite its many flaws, is based on research and evidence that is reviewed and updated as new facts come to light. Even though there is money to be made, most doctors care more about helping people than making a cheap buck off prescriptions.
The peddlers of pseudoscience remedies and organic miracle cures are not so held down by a medical establishment or a Hippocratic Oath. They are there to make money and play off of people's emotions and fears, and they are very good at what they do. I, for one, would much rather trust my health to a professional medical practitioner than a man selling footpads soaked with vinegar.

Eric, Seattle
January 23, 2008 10:16am

I'm not worried about doctors writing "bogus" prescriptions; my concern is that writing prescriptions is all they know. They have no clue of how to improve health through lifestyle or diet (most of them will tell you the best way to get calcium is through eating DAIRY!! - can't wait to see how many of you try to defend that).

The problem with western medicine is that it repeatedly attempts to treat the symptoms rather than finding the root of the problem. Repeated prescription causes allergies and further strain for the body, since all these pharmaceutical drugs carry effects other than the one they are supposedly treating you for.

Many problems will go away of their accord if the body’s natural immune system is encouraged (eg sometimes it is just a matter of increasing liver function, spleen function etc). But doctors play on the fact that people want “quick fixes”, so they prescribe some little “tested” pills. And come on Eric, who do you think pays for those “test results”??

Ingrid, Melbourne Australia
January 23, 2008 2:29pm

I am surprised by how many people see the world as black and white. I've been reading alot of comments with people who are strictly for and strictly against alternative methods/medicines or western medicine. Yes, there are alternative medicines out there that are junk, but that does not negate all others. On the other side, there are miracles of modern, western medicine that cannot be duplicated by any alternatives, but it is also not without flaw.

Doctors, too, hand out medication for various ailments, but many also do not devote the time and energy to explain what is happening to your body and to help you understand what behaviors contribute to your imbalance of health. How can he (she) if he only has a few minutes to see you? Most often, they treat a disease and not the underlying cause of it and you will come back again and pay more.

Many well respected and accomplished scientists, doctors, geneticists and the like are now blending alternative philosophies with western medical philosophies as they are now seeing the power that both have together.

Instead of seeing any one side championing the other, I see it as both sides have something to contribute to my health. Both sides are victim to greedy, dishonest businesses who take advantage of people's vulnerabilities.

Valerie, Van Nuys
January 23, 2008 2:46pm

Ingrid, I don't know what crappy doctors you see, but mine has never prescribed me anything to fight the symptomes, unless it's a problem that will solve itself.

It's completely normal for a doctor to prescribe something for the headache, instead of doing expensive tests, because 95% of the time, the problem will solve itself.

It is also normal for to prescribe medicin, IN ADITION to advicing you to improve your lifestyle and nutrition. Again, I don't know what backwater regions of the world you all live in, but here in modern western europe, where everyone has relatively cheap insurance, I've never heared a doctor say "Here's some pills for your weak bones, you go right ahead with your cheeseburger diet"

but here's something that'll really blow your mind, I tried it once and laughed my ass off.
Go to a real doctor and fake an illness, I chose constipation. My doctor suggested drinking water, eating fiber and coming back after a few days.
The local homeopathist/bio resonance person however, waved his magic wa.. i'm sorry, bio resonance apperatus, and suggested that I should stop eating peanuts (which I never do, yuck) and should take some garlic pills.

Now, which ones are the quacks again?

Alcari, the Netherlands
January 24, 2008 4:24am

Damn those Medical Doctors, because they detected and treated my Pulmonary Atresia as an infant I'm still alive and have to deal with dirty intestines.

Joseph, USA
January 24, 2008 12:48pm

The problem with some of the alternative methods and promotion of them is they are just so lacking in actual facts.

Read this:

http://style.uk.msn.com/fashionandbeauty/bebeautiful/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7349159

I'm just not sure I would want to take this if they told me I was drinking some form of clay also used in kitty litter.

I'd rather have an apple juice or bowl of oatabix. It's great for cleansing the system out.

Sam

Samantha, England
January 25, 2008 4:49am

Ingrid, please let us know what exactly your qualifications for your position are.

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour Plain, Australia
January 25, 2008 6:42am

Oatabix will give your system a good clean out. The stink can be smelt all the way out to Ireland. You steamer!

Marc, England
January 26, 2008 2:58pm

I see those ads on tv and sometimes it gives me some hope, but always investigate. I read the comments from those who have tried and truly appreciate the honesty of those people. I do believe there are natural herbs that can help and believe that doctor prescribed medicines can harm you. I also realize that medicines can sometimes be the only resource for us. People go to the doctor for everything these days and get the pills for the miracle cure. I believe that many of our illnesses are due to our way of life...fast foods, drinking everything but cleansing water essential to us, tobacco products, etc. What ever happened to pest free gardening and home cooking meals? We want everything to be convenient and quick so we bring much upon ourselves.

Marilyn, Portland, OR
January 27, 2008 1:16pm

This is the silliest thing I have ever seen written. No more have I seen a group of people that are into alternative medicine than those working in the medical industry. There are many studies and their results by all major med schools on the benefits of many commonly used treatments(natural). Well studied, but a waste of life to write essays on things that are only studied at a skeptical viewpoint. There is a sad common practice with the critical "learned" individual is they lack the ability to view any subject claimed as beneficial purely optimistic and critical with hope there may be help. Have you read any of the studies relating new cancers and nervous system diseases with the long term effects of toxins in the body. The body is magnificent. Not built to clean the drugs, pesticides, insecticides, radiation and all the other number of toxins that are man made and new. Our body needs help and more toxins are not always the answer.

Kris, Alaska
January 29, 2008 12:20am

Kris, a few things that bothered me about your post.

1) What exactly is a toxin? It is a buzz word that is thrown around a lot but is never defined. Before "toxin" is properly defined, it is very good advice to be skeptical of anything that claims to rid the body of them.

2) The body has organs built specifically to do the jobs that you claim the body can't do. The liver is there to break down certain harmful molecules and keep your body running smoothly. The kidneys are also built to filter blood and remove the byproducts of the livers actions. The body is, in fact, built to clean itself of unwanted chemicals.

3) You say that the medical community is into alternative medicine. Saying that every major med school is on board with the majority of natural remedies is untrue. Although some natural remedies may have beneficial effects (basically all cholesterol lowering drugs on the market today were developed from a substance found in red yeast rice), it is not true that all natural remedies are helpful. Since there are so many quacks trying to make a buck, the medical community is forced to be skeptical of new claims. If foot massages and herbs could cure all known diseases, doctors wouldn't exist.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
January 29, 2008 8:32pm

Kris, there is a vast difference between natural medicine and natural medicene.

If you mean unresearched herbs and untried substances and such, then yes, the medical world is doing lots of research on it. Most turn out to be nothing, but you never know when you find a new "quinine".

If you mean foot massage and channeling and such, then no, the research has been done, and redone, and all the so-called evidence is purely annecdotal.

Alcari, the Netherlands
January 30, 2008 12:58pm

Drat, just when I thought.......
no, was told of a new miracle, I wind up saving 19.95

dick, cincinnati
January 31, 2008 2:57am

THANK YOU! I have been saying this for years! its about time someone put it out there for others to read.
there is no way you can pull any poisons out of your body via your feet or your intestines...for cripes sake by the time they reach them parts of your body....hello! they are IN your body. Just don't put them there in the first place. actual science discoveries have to (and the dr.s want to show off their work/findings, who wouldn't?) go through a testing process where five other independent doctors or companies preform the exact same work/tests to get the same outcome. if they don't get the same results (or get the tests done)...well then it doesn't work. i am all for homeopathy but against con artists.
Good for you and thank you!

Lisa

Lisa, illinois
February 01, 2008 6:16am

Oh yes! Medical doctors and drug companies. They are always looking out for your well being.

Doctors get paid kickbacks for specific numbers of prescriptions. (I saw my doctor's check from the drug company).

Why are so many people dead from FDA approved drugs from our reputable drug companies?

Why are the same drugs cheaper outside of the US?

Give me a break! They are just as bad as the snake oil salesmen.

TB, Los Angeles, CA
February 01, 2008 8:55pm

Lisa, for you to call out detox remedies and then praise homeopathy is a bit contradictory. It is a lot like saying, "I don't believe in snake oil, that is ridiculous. I use magic elixirs instead."

If you don't understand what I mean, there is an episode that deals with homeopathy on this site. I suggest you check it out.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
February 01, 2008 9:02pm

I think grouping the silly foot pads and the expensive pills with other forms of detoxification isn't really legit. Additionally, there are many forms of detox that can be done without buying these types of products. For example, the "Lemonade Diet" (Master Cleanse) requires lemons, cayenne pepper and maple syrup. I've done this several times, and the results are great.

AJ, Atlanta
February 02, 2008 9:15am

AJ, would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to how lemons, cayenne pepper and maple syrup can have a detoxifying effect?

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour Plain, Australia
February 02, 2008 3:21pm

What I want to know is: is there a genuine cure for lycanthropy out there? This constant metamorphosing into a wolf & back again is drives me mad - mad, I tell you! I wake up in the morning with dried blood all over my face & hands, a burning pain in my bones, & no memory whatsoever of the previous night's activities. Why me, God - why?

Anyhoo, yeah: it'd be awesome if anyone out there knew of a real, viable remedy for werewolfism - I so need to get my life back on track, you know? Plus, if I don't get this taken care of before I die, I'll have to spend Eternity in Hell (as my soul'll be damned for my being the Devil's pawn & tasting human blood), and that'd just suck ass.

Thanks!

Diego Baz, Pittsburgh, PA
February 03, 2008 1:40am

Ahh, yes. The old Werewolf question. Colloidal silver at 30c dilution will do there trick. I hope you've had your distemper and rabies shots. Either of those two will certainly end the endless cycle of wolf and man. (fade out to Metallica)

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour plain, Australia.
February 03, 2008 2:21am

Are you really sure you want to start him out at such a high strength. Good lord man, 30C! I would start at 30X tops and if symptoms persist, then move on to the 30C. A solution that powerful put into an actual lycanthrope might kill the man. Marius, I almost want to accuse you of being an irresponsible homeopath. ;-)

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
February 03, 2008 11:43am

I have to say thanks for this episode since it helped save my mother from a quack.

My mother had been seeing a self-described "board certified physician" who had her doing multiple forms of detox, the foot baths and the pads, plus a variety of supplements. Don't know whether I should mention his name, but he calls himself "America's health coach" and turns out to be a chiropractor and homeopath -- even though his web photos show him in surgical scrubs with a stethoscope.

Much to my mother's credit, after I told her the details of this podcast she decided to test the foot wash process. When she saw for herself the process was a fake, she also had her real physician look over the supplements she'd been taking and discovered she was getting overdosed with Vitamin A.

Now she's informed her insurance company about this guy and hopefully started the process of getting him out of business.

Lowbil, Knoxville, Tn
February 05, 2008 7:09pm

What kind of society are we living in!!!!

http://www.terrible-trader.blogspot.com/

shawn, singapore
February 13, 2008 6:06am

Likely true re detox programs but lets not forget a Dr. gets all sorts of goodies for prescribing drugs, and they never suggest diet modifications
etc. I heard for all their years of med school they do one day on nutrition. No wonder people go looking for alternatives.

Brett Carter, West Auckland NZ
February 15, 2008 10:58pm

Doctors are very well paid drug dealers.

adam, toronto
February 16, 2008 6:04pm

As I suspected all along, except in rare emergencies, most peoples asshole says exit only.

Joe Health Conscious, Eugene, Oregon
February 16, 2008 10:58pm

Exactly where are you running into these doctors that hand out drugs with no recommendations of lifestyle change. I know several doctors that recommend diet change and lifestyle change before even thinking about giving out prescriptions.

I will admit that drugs are prescribed too often, but many times it isn't the doctors fault. People are beginning to assume that there is a magic pill for anything that is wrong with them. They go to the doctors and don't want to change their life, they just want a pill that will change what they want to change. Doctors will advise that the people eat better, stop smoking, or lose weight, but the people demand a magic pill. That isn't the doctor's fault.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
February 17, 2008 10:27am

They don't run in to those doctors, because someone like that would never hang on to their licence. They merely exist in the imagination of the people who peddle water as medication and wave their hands to balance the bodily humors.

Any doctor worth his degree will, symptomes permitting, ask you if you're eating enough this-and-that, if you smoke, excersice, have a history and plenty else.

What they will not do however, is prescribe excersize and order you to stop smoking, because they're not allowed to. What any good doctor will do instead is 'Strongly Suggest' you stop smoking and take up jogging, as well as prescribe some cough medicin.

The problem lies not with the doctor, at least over here, GP's aren't allowed to tell people that they have to get off their fat ass and loose 50 pounds or that problem is not going away, because, by some retarded law, 'losing weight' is not a prescription.

--that was written by an almost-MD

Alcari, the Netherlands
February 17, 2008 2:17pm

That picture wasn't really necessary.

Yuhar Nahim, Sitilokation
February 18, 2008 1:14pm

um but what medical doctors will do that a naturopathic doctor wont is spend 5 minutes with you, and prescribe something for your symptoms that they are being paid by a drug company to use, without considering anything about your mental health, fitness, lifestyle, and the body's power to heal itself. and then, you come back into their office with a "new sickness" which is really just side effects of that drug they gave you, so they give you a new medication to treat the side effects of the other side effects.... its a never ending cylce. medications are dangerous chemicals

kristin, texas
February 19, 2008 11:14am

I noticed none of the comments were about the truth of this whole article. Just a lot of jabber about what actual doctors will or won't do. You understand the point of this article was to expose the nonsense that is the detoxification business, right?
I quite honestly was surprised that there weren't a bunch of people here claiming they engage in this detox voodoo and that it works for them. Oh well, I'm sure that's coming soon enough.

Stacey E, Heber, Arizona
February 19, 2008 3:25pm

Just a response to Ingrid in Melbourne, Australia...

"...Why fix your diet if you've got Crohn's Disease, when we can get you addicted to steroids??? Stay on that sugar!"

Actually - Crohn's is an immune disorder that does not have anything to do with sugar intake - modifications of Crohn's diet usually means less roughage & fiber. But removing sugar from your diet, no matter how laudable, won't cure you of Crohn's. Our intestines form about 70% of our immune system. Concerns about poor nutrition result from having Crohn's as adhesions and such cause digestive malabsorption, which means Crohn's patients can eat a good diet and not necessarily even benefit entirely of it's good nutrition. Try a site like www.CrohnsOnline for more reliable information about the nature of Crohns. I have no affiliation with this site, I am just a Crohn's patient who has for years studied and researched it, and know first hand what effects diet can have - Others may experience differently of course, but there are common factors.

Since we are debunking here, I just wanted to clarify that about Crohn's because that is a common misconception.

Susan, Melbourne, FL
February 19, 2008 6:38pm

Great show!

Natasha, Lethbridge, AB, Canada
February 20, 2008 8:06am

It's funny how that "Mucoid plaque" thing when revealed, really does seem absolutely ridiculous. Yuck!

I have a question about the "Kinoki foot pads" though ....

I happened to watch their "dis-infomercial" - when I was up waaay too late the other night. And I noticed how they showed chemical charts with values for substances such as "benzene", etc. The "before" chart shows high levels and the "after" chart shows little or none.

What's the deal? Can they really get away with making statements like that? If those claims are false, isn't there laws about misrepresentation? I get it that the herbal/supplement/ etc market are not held to the same standard as those regulated by the FDA, but come on now...isn't there some legal ramification for lying to people this way?

TIA for anybody who knows something about the claims made by their charts.

Susan, Melbourne, FL
February 22, 2008 5:48pm

I've tried a few cleanses over the past five years and have been satisfied with the results of each. Gallbladder cleanse, master cleanse, colon cleanse. I don't have any major illness aside from a tendency to overeat and I've found that giving my body a break from digestion and a good internal "scrubbing" has:
-improved my skin,
-helped reduce cravings for sweet/salty foods,
-and dropped a few unwanted pounds here and there.

My boyfriend (who turned me on to this site) is concerned that I'm being, I don't know, swindled, maybe, but I buy the ingredients cheaply myself from farmer's markets and regular grocery stores.

I think each person has an individual response to things put in the body. I have a very sensitive stomach and don't tolerate animal products well. I have intense stomach cramps from eating meat, and I break out with huge cyst-like pimples and am very congested any time I eat dairy.

Having done the cleanses myself, I can speak from experience. How many skeptics have actually tried one of the cleanses?

Leslie W., Atlanta, GA
February 25, 2008 9:39am

It's just funny how in the 80's wasn't the big detox fad to go out and get an enema?

Then in the late 90's I had a co-worker trying to sell me a detox pill that would clear everything out of me and even get rid of my life long seasonal alergies.

All I know is that while in the military I had annual physicals. I smoked, drank, and didn't eat right...but I also had good blood pressure, low cholesteral, could run a solid 7 minute mile and was 20 lbs under my maximum allowable weight.

Apparently every individual is just that...an individual. What works for one person doesn't work for another.

By the way, I have quit smoking.

Rob E., Memphis, TN
February 29, 2008 5:53pm

Personal experience is no evidence of effectiveness. It's anecdotal. The benefits Lesley describes are no mystery & can be accomplished by a brief fast. What Rob describes is true, so long as it doesn't violate the possible. People claim to feel better after seeing a chiropractor, though it's well established joints don't "misalign" w/o severe debilitating effects. The "knuckle-popping" performed does indeed feel good, but is no cure. Are we to recommend chiropractics, based on personal experience, or shall we rely on study & a thorough understanding of anatomy & physiology that shows it to be less effective than benign neglect. These"cleanses" are similar. They do the impossible. Where did the "Master Cleanse" come from? It just appeared one day FOR SALE-no theory,no research. The worst is the gall bladder cleanse, because it could kill someone who thinks it’s a cure. Stones can't pass thru the bile duct to the colon. A stone in the bile duct causes severe pain & nausea. If you are experiencing these, you need to see a doctor. You won’t just poop it out - ever. As usual, the cure is prob the cause of the evidence of its own success. Tho, no matter what the incontrovertible truth is, folks will believe what they want to be true, not what is demonstratibly so. This is why “evolution is just a theory” these days. We live in a dangerously irrational age, where the ’right to believe’ trumps reason, & defence & demonstration of the truth is viewed as an attack.

Ellen R., Spokane, WA
March 02, 2008 2:13pm

Great article.

Although I doubt Leslie will return to confront the messages she inspired, I will respond to what she's said.

I think your list of results combined with your treatment are telling. I'm going by what you said, i.e: ".. aside from a tendency to overeat and I've found that giving my body a break from digestion.." You are altering your eating habits to give your body a break from "digestion" (which makes about as much sense as giving your heart a break from pumping blood). Does that include avoiding processed foods? There are actual correlations between the processed ingredients such as monosaccharides or enriched flour with weight gain. It's not a mystery why - they are empty calories delivering no extra nutrients, utilized quickly by your body before other macronutrients, thereby decreasing the uptake of beneficial nutrition. This is easily shown in the lab with enzymes which mimic the function of the human body.

To think that you lose an amazing couple of pounds is rather uninspiring. When did you weigh yourself? Were they at the same times each day (preferably before breakfast)? Regardless of whether you followed a method to your weigh-ins, your weight loss could be attributed to your aforementioned "digestion break" or any other factors, including less water retention.

Bear in mind, Leslie, that I am not against you as a person. It's just those silly beliefs that need changing.

Chris D, Winchester, KY
March 21, 2008 3:52am

Ironic. As a hard core skeptic myself, I am always gratified to see half-baked claims by fakirs debunked. Yet, within the same article is evidence of your utter lack of skepticism when it comes to another set of fakirs - the medical profession.

Let's take this assertion:

"A doctor won't lie to you and say that a handful of herbal detoxification pills will cure anything that's wrong with you..."

Now read this peer reviewed paper about anti-depressants:

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045&ct=1

So it appears that most doctors may not lie about a handful of herbal detox pills, millions of them have no problem whatsoever swallowing everything their pharmaceutical company sales rep want them to believe - and prescribing lethally dangerous drugs to our children based on those marketing positions.

Frankly, I think that unjustified and unquestioning faith in a paternalistic medical establishment operating largely out of self interest (have you ever researched the AMA or ACOG or any of the other medical lobbies??), for all intents and purposes in the service to large pharmaceutical corps, is far more dangerous to life and limb than a few naturopaths hawking their wares. Just google 'anti-depressants suicide school shootings violence' to see what I mean.

Ozzy, Phoenix
March 25, 2008 1:18pm

Fasts and cleansing out mucus from your body obviously work despite what your article may say disproving pills from companies that easily take advantage of New Age suckers. Personally I agree with Ozzy; dangerous medication given out so haphazardly by doctors would be better worth investigating.

Jack, Phoenix
April 01, 2008 12:59pm

Fasting causes the tissue of your muscles to degenerate. I can't see that as healthy. The body needs balance, and the body needs food. If there is some proof the fasting is "good", I'd like to see it. Being broke and having no food in the house, I was never very healthy. The best way to "cleanse" the body is to drink plenty of water.

It's true that these companies sell shit for money, and I also believe that many pills that doctors give to us because that is what they are given aren't always necessarily what we need, as certain foods contain many of the same effects... but the world revolves around money, and everyone should know one thing above all else: Trust nothing. But that doesn't mean wallow in your ignorance. It means learn as much as possible about every situation you encounter. Because you only have one life, (maybe, speaking as an avid agnostic,) so you should use it to its best extent.

Demetrius, Shelburne, ON
April 01, 2008 1:47pm

Raylyn,
All should take comfort knowing it is AGAINST THE LAW for a hospital to turn away someone showing up to their ER before examining and treating. Millions of uninsured use the ER as their primary care physician every day. Trust me I actually work in a hospital and have personally seen uninsured patients with million dollar bills walk out the door with the only reprecussion from the hospital being staining their credit.I empathise with your situation as before my own permanent employment I too rolled the dice as one of the millions of uninsured, which is why I took out loans, went to school and found employment where I have insurance. I am not opposed to nationlized healthcare, but I am opposed to the growing sense of entitlement in this country as though everyone should get something for free. It all comes from somewhere, and as opposed as I am to the war, and many other things this d... administration has done, even with the massive expense of this senseless war, our defense budget STILL comprises less than half of the annual payments for medicaid and medicare. Now imagine what would happen if ALL persons were insured for free, and the group who is entrusted to run this system is the same beauracrats you and I agree are screwing up the country. All persons should take their destiny into their own hands. My advise, take a 2 yr nursing program, or a 2 month nurses aid program, and help the problem by getting a job in a hospital where you will be insured

mike, chicago
April 02, 2008 10:11pm

Skeptoid, As one who did the Dr. Natura colonix cleanse, I am living proof that these types of things DO help people. Having been told that I had possible appendicitus(because the area of my pain was on the cecum, which is where the appendix is attached & also is where the small and large intestine meet) I did not want to have a surgery without my best try first. I was having chronic pains in that area & I did not have a bowel movement for almost 2 weeks. The stool softeners & enemas that were recommended in the last few days did produce 2 teeny, hard bowel movements. My problem was as a young mom of 3 preschoolers, I wanted to do too much for the kids & I "forgot" to eat healthy. being so busy,I'd been eating lots of snacky,refined on-the-go foods,convenience foods, not enough fruits & veggies & whole grains. Well, the herbal cleanse was sent quick & I had several bowel movements the 1st day. Now, you cannot possibly tell me that 1 scoop (approx 1 1/2 tsp) and 1 small capsule of these products could've produced anything like the picture you have above in your article. No Way, No How! For me it was on day 3 that I had the 'snakey' bowel movement. That was after the 3 day TOTAL of approx 4 1/2 tsp along with 3 tiny capsules of the herbal remedy, altogether. Sorry, but it doesn't add up to what came out! And I never had another BM like it, though I continued the products a month & increased doses. That shows the product doesn't cause the wierd BM. Eat veggies & drink H2o!

gal, indy
April 04, 2008 11:39am

Brian, you are dead on about the "mucoid plaque" being an artifact of the pill or potion being taken for the plaque. I also wholeheartedly agree with your criticism of the ionic foot baths and the foot pads.

However, detoxification (which doesn't have to involve the colon at all) can be a help for many chronic and acute conditions that allopathy does not address very effectively.

Basically, all you have to do is reduce calories and nutritionally support detoxification pathways. No colonic irrigation required!

I write about detoxification on my website here:
http://bozemanchiropractic.com/Detoxification.html

Thanks for the great article, but keep in mind that there are scientifically sound approaches, so don't throw the baby out with the snake oil.

Hans Conser DC
www.bozemanchiropractic.com

Hans Conser, Bozeman, Montana
April 15, 2008 10:27am

I am a doctor and I did the 5 day fast with Blessed Herbs colon cleanse. Of course it works! The stuff that came out was unbelievable. Also, I stopped taking the bentonite/psyllium after two days. The stuff kept coming out. I also put a packet in some water to see if it expands. It did, but nothing more that the glass. To suggest that what we are excreting is exactly what we took (i.e. the pills and powder) is absurd. We all have impacted, hardened plaque in our intestines.I would try it for yourself. Remember, the odds are stacked against you - i.e. white rice, refined flour, 'enriched' grains, crackers, - junk like that.
Good luck all.

2BOCOO, San Diego
April 19, 2008 7:56pm

@ 2BOCOO
Well, I'm the Space-pope of modern medicin, and I say there's no way in hades you're a doctor in anything worth mentioning.

Not to get to ad-hom, but from the way you talk, there's absolutely no way you ever managed to get through university. Of course, that's after I ingore the factual error of hardened plaque in the intestines (By which you mean 'colon', yet another sign)

As usual, I'll believe it when I see a properly done, independant study that backs up all the claims made on the package. Lacking them, and having plenty of evidence of the contrary, I wouldn't buy colon cleansers if they were the last pills on earth.

Lacking any survey, would you please upload a picture of yourself, holding some of this mysterious plaque that no scientist has ever seen. Please include in the picture a sign saying "Told you it was real" and a recent newspaper.

The fact that no reliable source has ever detected this plaque without someone first taking the "cleaning" medication should be ample sign of fraud, or at least warrant a skeptical view at the whole matter.

ps. Don't forget to check out the next season of the Sarrah Conner Chronicles this fall on Fox

;)

Alcari, Reykjavik, Iceland
April 21, 2008 5:28pm

Mucoid plaque IS described in scientific sources, but MDs are too incompetent to recognize it.

In an article called "The Scanning Electron Microscope"(Scanning Microscopy v5 n4 1991 p1040), it says that an "excess" and "rather thick layer of mucus" is "encountered quite often" and it "should impair digestion and absorption of macro- and micronutrients, as well as of medications." Interestingly, it also says that "because of the lack of appreciation of surface details with the light microscope, are ascribed to so-called patchy lesions."

Another article titled "Intestinal mucins in health and disease"(Digestion 1978 v17 n3 p234-63) says that "a situation of lowered intestinal pH and/or increased luminal serum proteins might cause normal mucins to undergo a pathological transformation into either a viscous gel or an insoluble precipitate" and that "mucin secretion may be a physiologic mechanism by which harmful toxins or immune complexes are cleared from the intestinal surface."

In a textbook called “Clinical Gastroenterology” by Howard Spiro 4th edition, there are several endoscopy pictures showing mucoid plaque so thick it can’t be denied by anybody (plates # 31, 46, 63, 66, 80, 81, 83).

Finally, on page 155 of the conventional textbook "Color Atlas of the Digestive System" dated 1989 by Pounder, Allison, and Dhillon, there is a photograph of a mucoid plaque "snake" that looks EXACTLY like the photograph you put up on this podcast. No cleansers were taken.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
April 24, 2008 9:26am

Anybody who has ever had or seen a colonoscopy can tell you that the plaque just doesn't exist. Even the medicine they give you to completely clean out your colon before the procedure does not produce anything that even remotely ressembles what these so called "cleansers" produce.

Martha Dade, Mexico City, Mexico
April 25, 2008 7:11pm

It is profoundly disturbing and somewhat depressing that there are not only people who actually believe this but that there are people who continue to perpetuate such nonsensical tripe.

I myself have had several colonoscopies due to a history of colon cancer in my family (history=genetic predisposition)and in all the videos, photos, examinations, etc. there was never any such "hardened plaque" lining the colon.

To 2BOCOO, "Joe Shmoe," and others like them: pardon the pun, but you (and your so-called "sources") are full of sh*t :)

John D., Old Bridge, NJ
April 28, 2008 7:29am

Look, some people like the idea of eating clay that will make a mold of thier intestines and then crapping it out...people can be weird.

Dennis Eck, L.A.
April 28, 2008 1:19pm

ooooOOoooh. Your anecdotal testimonies from medical doctors stating that they simply can’t see it totally disproves my claim that those medical doctors are not competent enough to recognize it. I suppose that objective, independent, anatomical studies published in conventional human pathology journals and indexed in the Medline database as well as photographs published in conventional textbooks of gastroenterology and pathology are no match for the anecdotal testimonies of the all powerful medical doctors who simply state that no one ever sees it. ooooOOoooh. Let's all bow down to the MD Gods.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
April 29, 2008 5:29am

OOoohhh...it's gettin' deep here.

All this poo talk makes my butt want to throw up!

;)

Happy pooping!

Pooh, Pooh, Sh*tsville, USA
April 30, 2008 12:12am

I've had stool that looks like that and I've never taken any sort of bowel cleansing pill, etc.

Anonymous, Virginia
May 02, 2008 4:44pm

I think Joe Shmoe fromm Portland Maine said it best.
There are things MD's dont recognize in the colon when they are not looking for that and it appears in so many its normal.....AND we get huge kickbacks on prescribing Pharmecueticals to the much more narrow minded.

Dr. J M.D., Orlando FL
May 05, 2008 6:39pm

Well, after being extremely sick for the last seven months (on the couch for four of them) and spending $12,000 in Western Medicine for doctors to find out what on Earth is wrong with me because I have encephalitis of the brain and reoccuring meningitus, all the MD's have told me they couldn't find anything wrong with me. I've had two MRI's, a spinal tap, and more blood tests than one can imagine. No concrete results. Out of pure desperation I decided to turn to natural medicine in hopes of a cure for God knows what. I am one and a half ways through a 3 month colon cleanse and have seen the most foul smelling hideous configurations come out of my body. I no longer have the encephalitus or the meningitus. I have lost 3 inches already around my middle of what I thought for years was fat. It isn't. It isn't. It is impacted fecal matter that is sometimes hard as rocks and has obviously been in there for years. My 5 month long bout with sciatica is gone. My headaches are gone. I am feeling healthier than I did when I was 25 years old. I am 40 now. I'll never go back to having an impacted colon again. I even took my own digital photographs of what actually came out. It's real.
Kristin

Kristin, Neptune City, New Jersey
May 06, 2008 10:33am

Go to the Doctor or any good Chemist and ask for a good Wormicide and stay at home to see what comes out.this is easy and cheap.

nizar mohamed, Lethbridge
May 07, 2008 1:27pm

Nizar - Your recommendation is that I take an unapproved drug for a condition that is not evidenced by any symptoms or tests?

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
May 07, 2008 1:32pm

Two drops of Oil of Oregano in a glass of water every day will kill intestinal parasites also (including the worms). It's not a drug but it has antibacterial and antiviral properties. It's good for many ailments.

Kristin, Neptune City, New Jersey
May 09, 2008 6:05pm

If I have something that looks like that inside of me I don't want to see it; that's disgusting. Frankly I think anybody who would want to voluntarily examine their sh__ has way too much time or money on their hands.

Jerome, Phila, Pa
May 09, 2008 10:20pm

Not all alternative practitioners are out to scam of swindle people. Some actually try to use solutions that really work and don't cost an arm and a leg. You cover only one angle of detoxification and presume to have answered the issue so aptly? This is only the second article of yours that I've read, and already it's obvious that you are fucking idiot when it comes to health and medicine.

Seth, Philadelphia, PA
May 10, 2008 2:44pm

Seth - Are you saying that anyone who does NOT pay cash to people who did not go to medical school, for unapproved drugs, to treat conditions not evidenced by any symptoms or tests, is an idiot? I would say a person who DOES that is the sucker.

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
May 17, 2008 9:39am

I can see that many of us don't really know what to believe, but if you think something works for you, and you can afford to buy it, and it really doesn't hurt you, why not give it a try. If a scammer is a scammer, it will come back on him or her. Now for the old folk meds. Everything is put on this earth for us to use, we are learning how to use what's available to us, but some things we don't really know about yet.
Tobacco is harmful or is it the chemicals put on the tobacco that really hurts us most? I do know that if you put tobacco on a bee sting it draws out the poison, and helps the pain subside. Almost everything that is a pill is made of some kind of extract, sinthetic material, tree, leaf, bark, weeds, dirt, roots. Natural, or not, it's in there. When you go to a doctor whether he believes you are sick or not, he will always push a pill on you of somekind. It may or may not help you. So you get to take it and let him know how it worked on your next visit, if not so good, then guess what, another pill perhaps something a little different, so they use meds that have already been used but it is packaged a little different, looks like it will work. So, to me that is scamming. Medical school is a business like any business, everyone has to pay for everything, doesn't matter for what, or for how long. I went to Dental school, and I finely had to get out of the profession because it never stopped costing me.

Mae Kensland, Bend, Oregon
May 17, 2008 6:58pm

Only a terrible doctor pushes pills on patients that don't need them. I have never met one, but I won't claim that they don't exist. I will say that they are far outweighed by the responsible doctors who always advocate lifestyle changes before they will look to a pill (unless of course you have a bacteria). People don't want to change, and the doctor is required to help them, so the only thing he can do once they refuse to diet and exercise is give them a pill. That is far from being the doctor's fault, it is the patient's attitude that needs to change.

Just because you can afford something, doesn't mean you should buy it. Often, the money could be much better spent on other things. There is no need to waste your money on detox products or natural remedies that have been proven to be bunk. It is just a waste of money, nothing else.

By the way, I do understand that being a dentist is expensive. After paying tens of thousands of dollars to get his degree, my cousin ended up buying his own practice for a few million dollars. That is slightly offset by the 4-5 hundred thousand dollars he makes every year though. Boy, what a sucker he is for putting up with those ridiculous costs.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
May 18, 2008 7:40pm

In my first post, I have already given a few examples of mucoid plaque being in the scientific literature despite MDs' incompetency to recognize it. You pseudoskeptics are only able to give lamebrained appeals to authority and call it a "thorough bebunking."

It's pretty pathetic that a MD is "required" to give out statins against his or her so-called better judgement. MDs are full of shit. Statins are a huge waste of this country's money. Catering to patients' stubbornness is a very profitable venture indeed.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 20, 2008 7:59am

Joe Anonymous, I suggest you rush out and spend all the money you have buying unapproved drugs to fill your body with for conditions that you show no symptoms of. Don't just talk, take action and prove your point.

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
May 20, 2008 8:06am

Eric Schulman, I suggest you rush out and spend all the money you have buying APPROVED drugs from a MD to fill your body with for conditions that you may show symptoms of. For example, if you happen to have irritable bowel syndrome, take action by doing what your MD tells you:

"Your doctor may suggest fiber supplements or laxatives for constipation or medicines to decrease diarrhea, such as Lomotil or loperamide (Imodium). An antispasmodic is commonly prescribed, which helps to control colon muscle spasms and reduce abdominal pain. Antidepressants may relieve some symptoms. However, both antispasmodics and antidepressants can worsen constipation, so some doctors will also prescribe medications that relax muscles in the bladder and intestines, such as Donnapine and Librax. These medications contain a mild sedative, which can be habit forming, so they need to be used under the guidance of a physician."
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/ibs/#treatment

For an added thrill, try stopping the antidepressant without the guidance of a MD. I'll see you on the nightly news.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 21, 2008 6:11am

I would, if I was ill. The problem is, I'm not. I'm perfectly healthy at the moment.

But if I followed the strategy YOU do, I would go out ANYWAY and pay money to someone who didn't go to medical school for an unapproved drug.

Maybe that's why you're too embarrassed to give your name. Or is it because you fear Big Pharma will send Men in Black to kill you, for having the courage to demand only unapproved drugs from untrained practitioners?

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
May 21, 2008 6:16am

You mean you would make OTHER PEOPLE pay all that money. Not you. Unless you are so rich that you don't need health insurance, taxpayers via government insurance or coworkers via private insurance would be paying for it. Not you. I am happy to report that I am not a drug-addicted financial burden on the working and middle class.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 21, 2008 7:38am

It sounds like we're getting at the real reason you object to medical science. Sounds like it has nothing to do with health or science, your real objection is to corporations and capitalism?

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
May 21, 2008 7:41am

Here's a little more about this scam: http://mucoid-plaque-scam.blogspot.com/

Mucoid Plaque Scambuster, Chicago, IL
May 26, 2008 9:10pm

Don't know about the Mucoid thing but healthy eating people who workout hardly ever get ill or have to go see doctors. I'm one of them. And colon cleansing isn't a scam. But the two products you mentioned in no way represent the large number of all natural products available to the public that give you no side-effects. And as for doctors, they take an oath. It's their JOB to promote pharmaceuticals. Try asking a pharmacist, who is neutral for the most part. Since they don't prescribe medicine, they have no stake in it either way. And they will often offer alternatives to taking drugs like physical activity and changing eating habits. It's naive for one to believe corporations have the people's best interest at hand. You could go a step further by asking your doctor about his or her own personal health regiment. I doubt they consume any of the garbage everyone else does.

Derrick Harris, Memphis, TN
June 02, 2008 12:42pm

The existance of mucoid plaque has already been scientifically proven. Medical doctors are just not competent enough to recognize it. Go to this blog and see for yourself: http://mucoidplaque.blogspot.com/

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
June 03, 2008 9:14am

Hi Joe Shmoe,

I like that trained medical doctors are incompetent and "just don't know" how to find this dreaded mucoid plaque, however you and a bunch of untrained self proclaimed homeopaths somehow do.

So if everyone in a crowded room thinks I'm crazy, and yet I think all of them are crazy, which one of us is *most likely* to be correct.

$0.02

SmartGuy, San Francisco
June 04, 2008 7:05pm

As you suggested, I read with skepticism "The Detoxification Myth," because the writer was "too lame to put his real name and city."

His signature is meaningless because it cannot be read with no name clearly printed underneath.
Please practise what you preach.

Jaime E. Dy-Liacco, Manila, Philippines
June 05, 2008 3:36am

Wow, I'm so glad so many of you are so smart. You believe total BS that has no scientific basis whatsoever. When one of you can prove what you say then maybe it will hold some water. Joe Schmoe, I suggest you come up with some better reference than a blogspot post. A few pictures showing a turd in someone's bowel means nothing, except to some idiot incapable of interpreting it.

As for our friend in the Phillipines, I suggest you open your eyes the tiniest amount. Below the signature you can't read is the authors name as well as a link to his bio. http://skeptoid.com/about.php

Fucking stupid people. You ARE the reason for much of the worlds bullshit.

RC Mitchell, Puget Sound, WA
June 10, 2008 3:26pm

RC Mitchell, your hysterical diatribe demonstrates who the "fucking stupid people" really are. First, you refer to my blogspot as my "reference" when everybody can see that it is a medium which HOLDS my references. Duh. Second, you claim that those endoscopy pictures on my blog show "turds" rather than a thick, rubbery mucus. Talk about stupid! That conventional textbook where the endoscopy pictures came from explicitly states that the stuff in the endoscopy pictures is the "mucosa" and NOT feces, and it is a well known fact that MDs ALWAYS remove feces before doing endoscopy. By the way, thanks for testifying that the stuff in those endoscopy pictures looks like some sort of bowel settlement because those MDs that took those endoscopy pictures claim that it is the "mucosa," which proves that MDs are either liars or incompetent. Gotcha! Those MDs in that textbook EVEN identify that mucoid plaque breaking away from the surface as the "mucosa" and NOT feces! Finally, you ignored the fact that those two medical journals TOTALLY CONTRADICT Edward Uthman's interpretation of what the surface of the intestines look like. Duh. Fucking stupid MD worshipers. You are the reason for Americans being the sickest in all the industrial nations despite American health care being the most expensive anywhere in the world.

Go to my blogspot: http://mucoidplaque.blogspot.com/

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
June 11, 2008 8:26pm

Mr. Shmoe - You're probably smart to stay anonymous. The guys in the white suits have a rubber room prepared, and they're looking for you.

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
June 11, 2008 8:39pm

--Part One--

Dear Joe,

As a current medical student who has access to a medical library, I decided to check up on one of your sources. Specifically, the one where you got those 7 endoscopy pictures, Clinical Gastroenterology, 4th ed., by Howard Spiro. You've been a bad boy, guilty of being either willfully ignorant or maliciously deceptive, but most likely both.

You seem to have read the captions under each plate only so far as to see the MDs claim that what they're looking at is mucosa while totally disregarding any explanation they gave, then dismiss their claim that it is mucosa because it doesn't look like "normal" mucosa to your layman eyes. You're half right. It's not "normal" mucosa, it is DISEASED mucosa, but mucosa nonetheless. What it’s NOT is mucous tightly adhered to wall of the intestine. Perhaps it is YOU how is too incompetent to recognize what the hell you're looking at.

Let's look at the second plate on your blog post (the first is correctly identified as normal looking mucosa). The caption reads, "A mucosa whorl surrounds the appendiceal orifice in the cecum". Just looks like the orifice leading to the appendix in the ascending colon to me.

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
June 21, 2008 10:38am

Thank you, Grant Herndon, for demonstrating to everyone here my point that MDs typically have poor observation skills as well as poor reasoning skills.

Concerning your poor observation skills, I never said in my blog that MDs think that it is “normal” mucosa. You even put the word “normal” in quotes indicating that I used this word in my blog. My blog does not use this word or even suggest this. This demonstrates my point that MDs typically have poor observation skills. Thanks. I tried to give a full spectrum of what the intestines “typically” look like. Typically, some people have certain diseases and some people don’t.

Concerning your poor reasoning skills, the only argument you made was an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. You said that it is, in fact, the mucosa simply because those MDs said so. Those MDs gave no scientific proof and instead just simply ASSUMED. In contrast, those medical journals in my blog demonstrate, using SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS, that the intestines are often covered with a rather thick layer of mucus, which other pathologists sometimes ASCRIBE to so-called “lesions.” A lesion is defined as “any abnormal tissue found on or in an organism, usually damaged by disease or trauma.” Duh. This demonstrates my point that MDs have been conditioned to only believe what authorities want them to believe and to only read certain medical journals rather than to think for themselves. Thanks.

My blog: http://mucoidplaque.blogspot.com/

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
June 21, 2008 7:57pm

First off, I didn't mean to imply that you had used the word "normal" in your post; I was just using the quotations for emphasis. I apologize for leading you to think I was putting words in your mouth.

As for the appeal to authority, my appeal was to the entire community of gastroenterologists whose observations and conclusions have been published in peer-reviewed journals and medical texts...a significant body of evidence. You, however, continuously make an appeal to Dr. Richard Anderson on your blog. When it comes to crimes of using arguments from authority, you seem to be the one most guilty.

You seem to be saying on your blog that the lesions shown in the pictures are due to "thick, rubbery mucous", as opposed to distinct morphologic changes due to disease processes. If that is indeed what you're implying, sorry, but those are pictures of diseased mucosa. That's what the intestinal mucosa itself looks like when diseased and inflamed, and this is only further confirmed by microscopic histologic examination of mucosal biopsies. Just because you choose to view those pictures through mucous-colored glasses of layman ignorance doesn't make the conclusions you reach true.

You may call my reliance on texts an appeal to authority. But those texts were written and pictures were taken by people making observations of disease processes while looking through a scope in someone's body, not by laymen drawing conclusions based on someone else's information.

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
June 22, 2008 2:50am

I’m sorry, but there are no microscopic histologic examinations showing that the SURFACES depicted in those SPECIFIC endoscope pictures are composed of healthy or diseased cells rather than mucus. Those “microscopic histologic examinations” you referred to are either cross-sections showing diseased or healthy cells BELOW the mucus layer or are from parts of the intestine that contain no thick layer of mucus. Histology is, specifically, the microscopic study of CELLS AND TISSUE themselves, so you would not find them focusing too much on non-living mucus. As I have already said, my blog contains a published study demonstrating that a rather thick layer of mucus is encountered quite often in certain diseased states, which other pathologists misidentify as a lesion because they have a “lack of appreciation of surface details” using the light microscope. The mucosa being inflamed or diseased does not rule out a thick layer of mucus being present at the same time.

As for an appeal to authority, it is defined as an argument that bases the truth of an assertion solely on the merits of the person making the assertion rather than the merits of the assertion itself. Accordingly, you emphasize personal merits such as “not by laymen” instead of discussing the merits of your assertions themselves. In contrast, by blog is full of scientific evidence and sound arguments rather than a list of Richard Anderson’s credentials.

My blog: http://mucoidplaque.blogspot.com/

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
June 22, 2008 6:12pm

“The mucosa being inflamed or diseased does not rule out a thick layer of mucus being present at the same time.”

That’s true, but that’s not what you seem to be saying on your blog, which is my whole point of bringing up the histologic examinations. You seem to be saying that the non-normal appearance of the intestine is due to thick mucous adhering to the intestinal wall, rather than morphologic changes of the mucosa itself. If that is true, then there should be normal intestinal mucosa underneath once any mucous is removed, and histologic examination would show a normal microscopic appearance. However, during disease states (including those claimed in the captions of the pictures on your blog), there are distinct microscopic changes.

Here is a microscopic view of normal mucosa, with the pictures’ caption under the link:

http://tinyurl.com/6f9gka

A, Normal small-bowel histology, showing mucosal villi and crypts, lined by columnar cells. B, Normal colon histology, showing flat mucosal surface and abundant vertically oriented crypts.

Here is a microscopic view of ulcerative colitis, an endoscopic example of which can be seen on your blog as the last picture in the series; again, the caption of the picture is under the link:

http://tinyurl.com/6xzyjw

Ulcerative colitis. Microscopic view of the mucosa, showing diffuse active inflammation with crypt abscess and glandular architectural distortion.

(pictures from Robbins and Cotran Pathologic Basis of Disease, 7th ed.)

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
June 22, 2008 7:59pm

"but since that's the solution many people want, there's always someone willing to sell it. The skeptoid book is now available...!"

heh- did you do that on purpose?

Anyway, if all this BS colon stuff exists, why do colonoscopies look so clean after patients stop eating for a day? Shouldn't almost everyone have nasty gunk in there?

eric thorn, Seoul, ROK
June 22, 2008 9:02pm

The GI docs give you a cocktail to use the day before your colonoscopy to clean you out. It forces you to eliminate pretty much everything in your system so that you are left with a squeaky-clean colon. This allows for an unobscured view of the walls of your intestine.

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
June 22, 2008 9:57pm

Grant, that just proves the point that this mucoid plaque doesn't exist. A simple laxative such as Go Lightly is all that is needed to get the colon almost perfectly clean. The laxative basically just speeds up what your colon normally does (and the excess amount of liquid helps to flush out the colon if I remember correctly). There is no hard, rubbery plaque that cannot be removed by the natural action of the colon. No special pills or week long fasts are needed to "cleanse" the colon. Its only job is to do that all on its own, each and every day.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
June 23, 2008 4:41pm

Steve-

I didn't mean to sound like I was saying there was, I was only answering Eric's question about why bowels are so clean-looking on endoscopy, and perhaps to show that it's not just a lack of eating for a day, but that there is a laxative involved. Unfortunately the subtleties of language are sometimes lost when written.

Oh, and I realized that I left off the page numbers on my reference a couple posts ago, so pictures taken from:

Robbins and Cotran Pathologic Basis of Disease, 7th ed., p. 828 (fig. 17-30) and p. 850 (fig. 17-47)

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
June 23, 2008 5:03pm

My apologies, Grant. I misread your comment and completely misconstrued what you were saying. I even missed the fact that you are the soon to be MD who is arguing against Mr. Schmo (if that is his real name). I will just have to chalk it up to having an off day.

PS: I am just glad you didn't rip apart my extremely amateur explanation of laxatives. I am working on becoming a PT so when you move away from muscles and nerves my knowledge base shrinks considerably.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
June 24, 2008 10:10am

No harm done Steve.

You got the explanation of laxatives mostly right. Sorta'. While some laxatives do stimulate/speed up the intestine and decrease the transit time, Go Lightly doesn't really do that. Go Lightly is polyethylene glycol, which acts as an osmotic laxative, meaning it works to pull water into and keep water in the intestine. So your plumbing just accumulates an over-abundance of water, and everything else acts at the same rate. When you start shooting out clear liquid, you're pretty much cleaned out. Hope this helps!

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
June 24, 2008 7:07pm

Your argument that hard rubbery plaque is naturally removed is unsupported. Those medical journals I cited demonstrate its existence in otherwise "squeaky-clean" intestines.

Grant Herndon, concerning your "You seem to be saying" argument, it is not true that I am saying that. I'm saying that the appearance is caused from SOME COMBINATION of mucosa changes AND mucus. You are failing to understand that "mucus on the mucosal surface will contain within the glycoprotein gel material from sloughed off epithelial cells, bacteria, digested food, plasma proteins, digestive enzymes, secretory IgA and bile"(from a medical journal).
That piece that was breaking away, for example, is actually a combination of dead cells AND thick mucus. Others show such things as inflammation of the mucosa bursting through UNDERNEATH the thick mucus layer. Others (that "mucosa whorl" for example) show mucus, which has transformed into a "dense white precipitate" from a situation of "lowered intestinal pH" or "increased luminal serum proteins" (from a medical journal).

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
June 25, 2008 10:01am

First I’d like to say that the quote you use, “mucus on the mucosal surface…” is perfectly legitimate and I agree with it whole-heartedly, and I’ve never had any issue with the concept. The intestinal mucosa contains numerous cells called Goblet cells whose major function is to secrete mucus. That’s just GI histology 101.

What I’ve been taking issue with this whole time was your use of the text from which you took the endoscopy pictures, although it’s your right to interpret any resource as you see fit. You were using your inexperienced, untrained interpretations to twist what the pictures were showing, when the captions under the pictures would say otherwise (which you neglected to post on your blog, which I also felt was somewhat dishonest).

My biggest beef was one picture you referred to explicitly (I’m guessing it was this: http://tinyurl.com/5zt5ob) Unfortunately, your blog is down right now so I can’t quote you directly, but you said something to the effect of “one picture even shows mucus so thick it’s breaking away from the intestinal wall”. That statement was just false, as the caption under the picture in the text says it is “necrotic mucosa” that is “sloughing off extensively”, a fact that, again, you didn’t provide on your blog when you commented on it.

You then proceeded to make sweeping derogatory generalizations about MDs, based in part on your interpretations of the pictures, when you had the facts of what you were looking at right in front of you.

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
June 25, 2008 12:25pm

Grant Herndon, I'm upset with google and my spyware and virus infected computer right now, but I think you remember what I said in my blog.

Getting back to what I said about MDs having poor observation skills, I said on my blog exactly this: "Dr. Richard Anderson explains that medical doctors typically think that they are looking at the mucosal itself when they are actually looking at a thick, rubbery, mucus-like substance." This obviously means that the MD authors of the pictures think that they are looking at the mucosa, necrotic or otherwise, and Anderson disagrees with their interpretation.

Furthermore, you are again making appeals to authority (as well as going around in a logical circle) when you say, essentially, that it is not true that MDs MISTAKENLY think that they are looking at the mucosa because MDs say (in the caption) that they are looking at the "necrotic mucosa," which you dimwittedly call a "fact."

The reason why you make these lame-brained appeals to authority is because you don't know how to think for yourself, which I explained in my conclusion paragragh: "The sad fact is that medical doctors have been conditioned. . .to only believe what the AMA wants them to believe."

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
June 25, 2008 6:12pm

You seem to keep trying to hammer home the point that the MDs are quite possibly mistaken in the interpretations they write in the captions of the pictures, as if I just don’t ‘get it’ or something. To spell it out, I DISAGREE WITH YOU, and here’s why. When it comes to accepting contentions as true I can do 2 things (in this case): I can accept the conclusions the MDs reach in published medical texts, or I can accept what you or Dr. Richard Anderson says.

As I’m sure you’re aware, I accept what I’ve read in the medical texts with a high degree of confidence. But I do so not because it’s an MD that says it, but because of the process that the MD’s conclusions go through before it’s published. MDs are certainly not immune to making mistakes, but when their conclusions are put through the checks and balances system of peer review, what gets through to be published has a certain degree of credibility to it. Statements and conclusions of observations that go through this ringer have a certain weight to them that I just don’t ascribe to what some guy has written in a book.

I will gladly change my mind about what is written in medical texts when the evidence comes in that overturns what has been previously stated. But let that evidence come from credible sources that have themselves been through peer review. Until then, I’ll take whatever you and Dr. Anderson say with a grain of salt.

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
June 25, 2008 7:55pm

Grant,

First, thank you for your insights. I really don't understand why people distrust the medical community so much. I mean, if your plan was to be a charlatan, then 10 years of schooling and residency is hardly the quickest route.

While part of me is glad you got the last word on this thread / flame (at least for now), it's probably best not to even engage people like Mr. Shmoe. He's clearly go the time to waste spouting nonsense and promoting his blog. The the fewer posts he has to respond to, the less "airtime" he gets.

Remember...you can't spell ignorant without ignor(e)...

Erik Davis, Toronto
July 17, 2008 11:02am

Grant Herndon, those medical journals I gave are peer reviewed and they contradict what the skeptics say. It is sad that your only recourse is to just accept what people say. I agree with Erik Davis. It will be best for you to not engage in any debate which requires critical thinking skills. It will only make MDs look feeble minded and conditioned.

Why do people distrust the medical community so much you ask? Well Erik, maybe it has something to do with the fact that the MD community, which joined together with industry to form the American Council on Science and Health (www.acsh.org), puts so much time and energy into promoting fast food burgers, trans-fat fries, cupcakes, double-layer cheese pizza, and sodas as being JUST AS HEALTHY as fresh fruits and vegetables and promoting chewing tobacco use as a HEALTHIER alternative to smoking tobacco.

You MD worshipers are stupid.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
July 18, 2008 7:18pm

Joe, who do you think writes and peer-reviews those medical journal articles? Most are MDs. You demonize the very people you use to try to support your argument. You seem to be keen on taking what the MDs say with confidence so long as they agree with what you already believe while ignoring and bashing those who don't. Seems a bit like confirmation bias to me.

Maybe it's just me, but I have no problem "just accepting what people say" when "people" in this instance is defined as the majority of the medical community drawing the most appropriate conclusions given the available evidence.

Grant Herndon, Fort Worth, TX
July 24, 2008 7:33pm

I ignore those who disagree? Lets see here. . .

Edward Uthman, M.D. says: “I have seen several thousand intestinal biopsies and have never seen any [thick mucus-like substance].This is a complete fabrication with no anatomic basis.”

However, this published medical journal says: “Excess mucus covering the mucosal surface: Situations such as the one mentioned above are encountered quite often and, because of the lack of appreciation of surface details with the light microscope, are ascribed to so-called patchy lesions. . .Indeed, in such instances, the mucosal surface is covered with a rather thick layer of mucus.” --- Scanning Microscopy v5 n4 1991 p1040.

Paul Lee says that stool resembling mucoid plaque is “only found in users of bowel cleansing products.”

However, in the conventional source “Color Atlas of the Digestive System” (1989) on page 155, there is a full color photograph of it from a non-user.

Remember what I said about you having poor observation skills? As everyone can see, I certainly don’t ignore those who disagree. Its just that I find scientific evidence using sophisticated scientific tools more convincing than someone’s opinion.

Your appeal to the majority is a classic logical fallacy often used by people with poor critical thinking skills. What makes your argument particularly stupid is that it does not add any insight into alternative medicine, which is ALREADY DEFINED as medicine not accepted by the majority of the medical community.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
July 28, 2008 5:10am

Well you may not know what you are talking about because 14 rubbery things came out of my body and with NO PILLS or anything else added or any type of colon therapy. All I have done is eat beyond healthy and eliminate chemicals/toxins over the last 3 years.
4 years ago I became very sick and could not figure out why. I was becoming allergic to everything, having convulsions and my overhealth was very poor. I began eliminating all outside factors that could be contributing and 5 weeks ago, out of no where, I became VERY sick and then released tons of mucoid plaque or what I suspected to be parasites. I understand there is a lot of garbage out there now days but to blog about something that has not happened to you is not fair to others. There are people like me who are very sick from these strange things and cleaning the colon might be benificial. I am actually considering it now that this happened to me and I was looking for info when I found this sad site...

heather, california
July 30, 2008 3:00pm

Heather,

My situation is similiar to yours. THANK YOU for sharing your sentiment, which I also have, about how callous these bloggers are.

If you are looking for THE BEST information on this topic, read the books "Cleanse & Purify
Thyself Book 2" and "Cleanse & Purify Thyself Book 1" by Richard Anderson. For THE BEST cleansing program, go to www.ariseandshine.com/. Dr. Richard Anderson is the FOREMOST expert on this topic. If you do Richard Anderson's cleansing program, MAKE SURE you take cayenne capsules with the herb capsules. Contact them and ask them about it.

Interestingly, in the conventional medical book titled “Color Atlas of the Digestive System” (1989 Pounder, Allison, and Dhillon) on page 155, there is a full color photograph of what looks like mucoid plaque. The caption next to the photograph reads: “A particularly bizarre stool, from a young woman with the irritable bowel syndrome.” Dr. Richard Anderson pointed this out as an example of mucoid plaque. Apparently, in certain rare situations like yours, mucoid plaque can come out without even taking any cleansers.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
July 30, 2008 6:47pm

I, too recently passed 2 "mucoid ropes" after being on a semi-strict diet for two weeks. I wasn't taking any bentonite (I never have) but began eating lots of cooked beets and juicing cabbage and carrots because I heard these were good for the colon. In addition I eliminated dairy, reduced meat and increased fruits and veggies. I am excited to remain on my natural diet, not using anyone's product and see how much more stuff comes out of me.This is a true test to me. I tend to be skeptical, and listen to both sides of the story, but have had so much success using natural methods, I just can't fault it anymore. You do what works for you, and medical doctors haven't done a thing for me.

Heidi, Logan, Utah
August 01, 2008 1:53pm

Heidi - What condition were you seeing the medical doctors for?

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
August 01, 2008 1:57pm

After the birth of my third child I suddenly changed and was no longer myself. I had chronic fatigue, muscle weakness, depression, constipation, dry skin, low basal temperature, hormonal difficulties, mood swings, and the list goes on. I had been under a lot of stress and suspected my adrenal glands or my thryoid as acting up, but no medical doctor was even interested in discussing my adrenal glands. They ran a test on my thyroid and said it was fine. "You look normal," they said. Hmmmmmm, well I didn't feel normal. Something was definitely wrong with me. And it wasn't that I was just tired from having a baby. This was four months later and I had never felt so awful. I was so discouraged! So I began seeing a couple of "naturapaths" and within months I felt so much better. I am so glad now that the normal dr didn't find something wrong and put me on a drug that would make my thyroid dependent for life. I have begun educating myself and love the new knowledge I have about nutrition, etc. Next time I have a problem, natural/alternative medicine will be my first stop.

Heidi, Logan, Utah
August 01, 2008 2:25pm

So a doctor told you that those symptoms were caused by a THYROID problem (guess he'd never seen a post partum mom before), and recommended LIFETIME thyroid drugs????? What drug, if I might ask?

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
August 01, 2008 2:32pm

No, if you read my last post again, my doctor said my thyroid test came out fine and didn't recommend anything--no, not anything for post-partum either (my depression was very mild--it was one of the least of my concerns). He was completely stumped, other than thinking I would bounce back eventually. Sorry, but my baby was four months old at this point and I actually felt terrific when she was six weeks old. I was getting WORSE. Bouncing back wasn't the issue, and I knew that. Something weird was going on with my body. But my dr. just didn't have a clue. I actually really like the guy and still take my kids to him, but he just didn't have the answers I needed at that point. Hence, my discouragement with medical MDs. But I'm grateful now, because it forced me to take a different route, one I am very happy I did! It set me on a path of educating myself about my body and about alternative health practices which actually do work. (I agree some stuff out there is a little weird). But I have to say, the ones I have tried have gotten me the results I wanted, so I know there is a lot of truth to many of them.

Heidi, Logan, Utah
August 01, 2008 3:10pm

Sorry, I misread, sounded like you were saying you were glad the medical doctor didn't make you drug dependent for life. I guess I assumed that meant the doctor was going to prescribe lifetime thyroid drugs for your post partum symptoms -- which definitely sounded unusual!! I guess I just wondered what you felt needed to be treated, your symptoms sound like what my wife and every mom I've ever known went through after childbirth.

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
August 01, 2008 3:19pm

Sorry, but this "article" is not a very well researched bit of writing. In fact, not much better than some of the crazy claims made for some of the products out there.

A quick Google search would show that there *is* a lot of scientific information available on how to detox without resorting to the more "esoteric" and how to support the liver's normal function.

Of course this is essentially just another religious stance - the religion of science going up against the "quacks". After all, scientists are pure and never, ever falsify test reports, omit inconvenient data, publish totally bogus studies or anything of that nature, do they? Oh no, scientists have every right to make rude remarks about anything heretical.. err.. unscientific.

The poor arguments presented here and the stringing together of such weak logic are worthy of a D in any class on reasoning (which is, of course, just another religion.)

Joe, Ottawa
August 05, 2008 6:59pm

Joe,

Why don't you provide some evidence for your claims? Show me one peer review, double blind, placebo-controleed study that clearly demonstrates a) what exact toxin(s) people are inundated with (in the form of a blood test) and then b) blood tests AFTER the said "detox" plan that clearly demonstrate the removal of those toxins that are said to be interfering with our health.

Funny, when I do a "google" search on toxins, it's page after page of scientifically untenable marketing and deception. Please steer me in the right direction.

I'll be waiting, but won't be holding my breath.

Mike, Vancouver
August 09, 2008 1:42pm

Here is an imitation of Mike:

Duuuuuh. Those astronomers are stupid. They claim to know the distance between the Earth and the moon, but they didn't even use a tape measure!

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
August 14, 2008 4:10am

Joe, it is very apparent that you are running out of good arguments when you mock people, much less when you mock them and then make a terrible analogy. There is a big difference between toxins and the distance to the moon, and I will prove it.

If I asked an astronomer what the distance from the Earth to the Moon was, the astronomer would tell me a number. I could then ask for proof and the astronomer could go into great detail about how the calculations were done and how they were checked.

If I asked a naturopath what would remove toxins from my body, he/she could give me an answer. This answer would differ from person to person (unlike the astronomers answer). If I then asked for proof that this worked, no studies could be quoted, because no successful studies have been done. The explanation would probably wander into New Age babble and maybe even bring in quantum mechanics. The explanations of how the treatment works would almost certainly vary even more than the initial suggestion. This is hardly enough to convince me.

Show me any hard evidence that these vague "toxins" are plaguing my body. Is there a blood test that looks for them? a screening? anything reliable? Then I need evidence that the remedy in question can actually successfully treat the "toxins". All you have provided is a picture of a diseased intestinal wall which a soon to be MD easily explained.

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
August 14, 2008 10:35am

Joe Ottawa,

You must be dumber than Hannibal's foot stool to spout your comments. You must be one of the quack snake oil salesmen selling or promoting these questionable products

Pete Ciccolino, Dublin, CA
August 16, 2008 8:07am

In the conventional textbook "Review of Medical Physiology" (7th edition, 1975, p375) it says "A number of amines, including such potentially toxic substances as histamine and tyramine, are formed in the colon by bacterial enzymes which decarboxylate amino acids. . .Ammonia is also produced in the colon and absorbed. When the liver is diseased, the ammonia is not removed from the blood and severe neurologic symptoms result." The controversy surrounding this autointoxication theory has never been about whether these toxins exists but about whether they are the etiology of symptoms or disease, you stupid idiot.

You, Steve Loeffelholz, LIED when you said “all you have provided is a picture of a diseased intestinal wall.” You already know that in my very first post I provided two medical journals and a pathology Atlas to prove the existence of mucoid plaque. Stephen Barrett lies about the autointoxication theory when he says “no such ‘toxins’ have ever been found” when a simple look into the conventional medical literature shows that the autointoxication controversy has never even been about whether these toxins exist or not. No amount of “peer review, double blind, placebo-controleed” studies are ever going to prove anything because liars like you and Stephen Barrett will simply deny or ignore them.

The astronomy analogy, which you are too stupid to get, demonstrates that facts can be acquired indirectly using deductive reasoning rather than directly.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
August 16, 2008 8:59am

You have to remember that that there are stil many illnesses that are incurable or whose only treatment is a rather pallitive masking of symptoms. Examples are certain types of cancers, some cases of severe IBS, M.E/CFIDS, Schleroderma, Unresponsive Chrohns desease, etc etc... The reason people go through these awful alternative things is that they are desperate and in pain and their conventional medicine doctor can not give give them enough help. Therefore please don't be so dismissive of people who do get sucked in by these ads. Nevertherless I still enjoyed reading your article.

Rachel Leah, Israel
August 19, 2008 11:46am

Joe, instead of throwing around lame insults like a four year old, how about we have this conversation like adults.

First, the liver is fully capable of getting rid of the chemicals that you mentioned in your post. It even states that the liver has to be diseased in order for problems to arise. That is why the substances are only potentially harmful, not an instant sign of the end of the world.

Second, I would not classify histamine, tyramine, and ammonia as toxins since they are chemicals that naturally occur in the body. If their regulation is off and homeostasis is disturbed, they can cause problems, but so can every other naturally occurring chemical in the body. Are you trying to say that any chemical in the body that could potentially cause harm is a toxin?

Third, none of the products that naturopaths and detox enthusiasts use actually claim to reduce the bodies levels of these three chemicals. They all talk about the vague buzzword "toxin". The reason that none of them make specific claims about certain chemicals is that those claims are testable and easily falsifiable. They stick to "removes toxins" and "improves wellness" because these claims are vague enough to be untestable. They stick to ground where they can't be proven wrong or right.

Lastly, I didn't lie in my previous post. I was summarizing your argument in order to prove the point that you have not provided sufficient evidence to make a convincing argument.

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
August 20, 2008 1:44pm

I did Joe's (from Ottawa) quick Google search and EASILY found scientific studies proving that detox herbs REALLY DO detoxify the liver:

http://men.webmd.com/features/liver-detoxification----fact-fad

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_dandelion.htm

Amazingly, you guys actually suggested that he was dumb or deceptive for saying this. Needless to say, you made yourselves look pretty foolish in front of everybody.

Saying that those chemicals aren't toxins because they "naturally" occur in the body is like saying artery plaque is not a toxin because it "naturally" occurs in the body. People "naturally" eat an unhealthy diet. The fact that these chemicals have no useful function and that the liver is forced to detoxify them because they are TOXIC proves that they are toxins and that that bacteria is a parasite. Even if the liver is successful at detoxifying these chemicals, it still puts unnecessary wear and tear on the liver and energy demand on the body.

It is not surprising that MDs brush this off as a "natural" process because they also have lowered their standard a notch as to what they consider to be "naturally" healthy. MDs consider undue fatigue, for example, to be the "normal aches and pains of life."

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
August 23, 2008 5:40pm

Joe, the links in your previous post do not go to scientific studies. One is from an herbalist site (hardly credible) and the other is a WebMD article saying that some small scale studies show a possible benefit (without linking to the actual studies). Neither of these can be considered good, much less conclusive, evidence. Do a search for liver detoxification on PubMed and you will get paper after paper about how the liver detoxes different molecules, not how to detox the liver.

"The fact that these chemicals have no useful function..."

So now your medical expertise has told you that none of these molecules are useful. Perhaps you are not very familiar with the immune system and the critical role that histamine plays in it.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/503560

Perhaps you don't realize that the majority of ammonia produced in the human body happens when bacteria breaks down proteins in the intestine. This process is critical to maintaining the body since several amino acids must be acquired through diet. The body evolved to accommodate this fact and the liver has a specific enzyme to convert ammonia into urea.

Tyramine is the only molecule that is not necessary, but it is contained in many foods that are. Once again, the liver comes to the rescue with monoamine oxidase which is specifically designed to rid the body of molecules like tyramine.

This is not unnecessary wear and tear. It is what the liver was designed to do.

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
August 24, 2008 8:52am

Steve Loeffelholz,

Ammonia is produced in the process of destroying amino acids NOT in the process of breaking down protein into useful amino acids:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deamination

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/yrdd/index.htm#food

Didn't they teach you in high school that STOMACH AND PANCREATIC JUICES break down protein into useful amino acids NOT ammonia producing bacteria, which DESTROYS amino acids?!

USEFUL histamine is normally produced by HUMAN cells not by parasitic bacteria cells and is only useful when it is released by THE BODY at the RIGHT PLACE and at the RIGHT TIME. Perhaps you are not very familiar with the critical role that histamine plays in allergy symptoms when the body's immune system unnecessarily releases it. Perhaps also you are not very familiar with scombroid food poisoning, which results when bacteria breaks down one of those useful amino acids you were talking about into the "toxic agent" histamine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scombroid_food_poisoning

It is very sad that you didn't learn any of this BASIC information in HIGH SCHOOL because that link you gave me, which I can't access, reveals that you must be a "healthcare professional."

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
August 25, 2008 11:41am

Once again your post was full of childish insults and unnecessary caps and lacking in useful information. Please try to keep your comments directed at the topic, not at me.

You are correct, and I did make a mistake. Ammonia is produced in the liver when amino acids are metabolized. The point I made is still valid though. The body has a specific pathway (urea cycle) that is made to eliminate this byproduct because this is a natural process. Unless the liver is diseased or a massive amount of extra ammonia is being produced, the liver and kidneys can handle it.

Scombroid food poisoning is a specific case where fish high in histidine is mishandled or poorly refrigerated. This allows a bacteria on the fish (not in your intestine) to change the histidine in the fist to histamine. The chemical is already on the fish when you eat it, so I fail to see how this is any different than other food poisoning. Also, scombroid food poisoning is rather mild as the symptoms are typically gone a few hours after onset since the body has a method of ridding itself of histamine.

You seem to believe that everything is a toxin. Sugar is a toxin because it can cause diabetes. Cholesterol (a vital component of every cell in the body) is a toxin because it can cause heart disease. Your definition of toxin is so broad that it is useless and something ridding the body of your "toxins" would do more harm than good.

PS: What basic high school class taught you about scombroid food poisoning?

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
September 01, 2008 4:19pm

I found this to be a great article. I found the colon pages while looking for symptoms for intestinal parasites on the web and found it odd that after talking about such parasites, the site immediately recommended colon cleansing without discerning whether you even have them. I immediately became suspicious. (my first reaction to anyone asking me for money)

I too am upset with MDs for curing the pneumonia i got at age 2, and forcing me to live against my will. I found that to be unethical.

Yes, doctors can get stumped. DUH. Yes, people (which includes docs) can try to rip you off. But anyone who claims that MDs hurt you to get more money is a quack. You dont go through med school for that. And they wouldnt get money from it because they have a SALARY. This means that any particular MD has no reason to ever want to see you again. If he mans his shift and noone comes, he STILL GETS PAID. (untill the hospital closes down at least)
The people with a reason to rip you off are the drug companies, who might in the name of money, try to stop a cure so they can keep treating the symptoms.

For you bloggers out there still arguing I'm going to now show you the only way to win an argument on the internet: "You can rant at me all you want cause Im not gonna visit this page again." I hope the rest of you enjoy watching the ones that try.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

Nom Carver, Suburbs, USA
September 01, 2008 8:23pm

I agree with parts of your article, especially the parts that have to do with the detox foot baths. However, I am a licensed naturopathic medical doctor in the state of Arizona and I often place patients on detoxification programs that include liver support and a good clean diet. So when you talk about naturopaths you should state that you are referring to the unlicensed ones. They are giving us a bad name.

Toni Vaughan, NMD, Phoenix, AZ
September 02, 2008 12:14pm

Toni - If you wish to be differentiated from other naturopaths, I hope you have some solid foundation for these "detoxifying" prescriptions. What are these toxins you are hoping to remove, and have you confirmed the presence of these toxins with a blood test?

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
September 02, 2008 12:21pm

LOL thank you for this! I was on the fence with the whole colon cleanse idea, I started looking into it because of some issues involving a Peptic Ulcer. The Medication causes horrible constipation and I was looking for some info on Laxitives.

Anyway, I stumbled on to some of these sites. I knew that these couldn't be parasites like one site suggested, but the term mucoid plaque had me going for a minute.

Good heaven's Cat litter! LOL That explains why I kept thinking, "Its like the poor guy pooped his intestins!"

You rock! How on earth did you find that out?

Julia, Denver, CO
September 09, 2008 10:36pm

Unfortunately, your claims are very alarmist.. similar to the claims these detox companies make, yours are just at the other end of the spectrum.

While I think you make good points in your claims, they are still unscientifically found.

What you should point out as evidence, to further support your claims, is the ingredients used in these Colon Cleansing Products.

Such as Cascara Sagrada & Senna... Both of which can be very detrimental to the intestinal tract when used for extended periods of time. Usually, longer than 7 days can cause your intestines to become addicted to them... and products like Colonix have Senna in them and require you take it FOR 90 DAYS!!!

I've used a few detox products and felt that I got a few benefits from them, but you make it sound like they are kill everybody that takes them. When, people die from asprin and viagra more often than they do from colon cleansing products.

JP Richardson, California
September 20, 2008 8:59am

This clarified a lot of things for me regarding the foot patches. I was seriously thinking of getting a box to try out. I saw them a local Walgreens store and that really convinced me to get some. After all, why would a huge chain like Walgreens pick up a product that was totally fraudulent?? But I decided to hold off anyway...they were selling them for $20 for a box of 14. My boyfriend also made a good point that just because Walgreens picked them up, didn't mean anything. I also thought at one point, before having this idea verified by your article, that the brown color on the pads was a result of sweat...Well they won't be getting my money after all...Thanks!

Nora Melendez, Menlo Park, Ca
September 22, 2008 2:59pm

You can't skeptoidify my detoxification system: The SINONASAL ROTO FALANGE ATOXINIZER (SRFA). Instructions: 1.Place hemeopathic SRFA fabric over first finger. 2. Insert treated finger deeply into nostril. 3. Rotate finger. 4. Remove finger. After SRFA treatment respirations will be easier.
You want observable, scientific proof: THE PROOF IS ON THE FINGER.

Frank the Crank, Philly PA
October 02, 2008 10:55pm

You can produce the result of those pictures with straight psyllium husk powder which costs pennies per serving and can be purchased at any grocery store.

Grace, Austin/TX
October 04, 2008 8:06am

Not all detoxs are false. There are such things as toxins in our body, most of which come from all the unatural 'food' we eat. If you can put the toxin in yer body, then surely there is a way to get it out. Some detoxes have been proven to work, while others are just plain bogus. (like the snake-intestine thing) Just think, if medicine was the only answer, everyone would be cured and the big drug companies would no longer exist.

marc, marshall tx
October 09, 2008 11:19pm

From the infomercial on Comedy Central this morning at 5:00 am
"Westminster Abbey was built in 170 AD, and inside its dark-grey stone walls are the graves of some of the most famous kings and statesmen who ever lived. One of the smallest burial places is the final resting place of one of the oldest men to ever live. His name was Thomas Parr. It's accurately documented that he was born in 1483 AD, and he died at the age of 152! After his death, and English doctor named William Harvey was hired by King Charles to perform and autopsy to find out why he lived so long. The autopsy was written in latin, and it's been preserved to this very day that Parr's organs were in perfect condition, and his colon was as clean and healthy as that of a child!
The moral of this true story is: Keep your colon clean, and you may live a long and healthy life!"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dan the Man, Omaha, NE
October 10, 2008 4:10am

I have been saying these DETOX and Body cleansing things have been bogus all along, and this was a great article about it. I love how the health spas have NO, as in Zero, None, Nada, proof about what toxins they are taking out. And one of the comments on this page was classic "Not ALL of the detoxes are false..." there's always one guy that can't admit they were fooled, so it's THEIR whacky system that is the TRUE one, and the OTHERS are bogus. Hah!

I'll be going on a cruise in March, and I'll be sure to be lectured on "detoxifying" my body with seaweed because it will suck out all the alcohol and fesces from my body. And after 150 bucks later, apparently i'll be able to hit the pool and drink it back in. What a joke.

Alex, Wilmington, DE
October 23, 2008 5:38pm

As hoaxy as many natural "cures" can seem, I think the author puts a bit too much faith in conventional medicine. It's important to remember that conventional medicine is basically controlled by drug companies. It's much easier and more profitable for a physician to write a prescription for a pill than to spend some time looking for a natural cure for your ailment. When I'm feeling sick, the only solution they EVER offer is antibiotics, or some pharmaceutical that I later found an effective food alternative. Conventional doctors are only now realizing the damage they've done in pumping us all up with antibiotics when we have the sniffles. It's made mutant strands of staph that are resistant to antibiotics that are killing people. My mother's boss and his son were in the ICU because their case got so bad.

Deciphering the real deal from the scams is no easy task; it takes rational thought and thorough research, but natural medicine is not to be written off.

Devon, Austin, Texas
October 27, 2008 10:20pm

That evidence based medicine is "controlled by pharmaceutical companies" does not validate non-evidence based medicine. Those unapproved, untested drugs are "controlled" by the companies that manufacture them too. What's your point?

The validity of a treatment is determined by whether or not it works, not by who controls it.

Nobody "writes off" natural medicine. The vast majority of drugs on the market are derived from natural compounds.

Robert Houghton, San Diego, CA
October 27, 2008 10:50pm

My point is that no matter who you go to, it's important to remember that someone is making a dime off of you; conventional medicine should receive the same scrutiny as natural medicines and vice-versa.

Of course validity of treatment is determined by whether or not it works. The problem is that many natural treatments are gladly passed up in favor of more profitable, even more dangerous synthetic treatments. This problem is made worse when doctors don't consider the conflict of interest when they read drug company sponsored studies heralding a new miracle drug.

For a quick example, look up studies on statin drugs versus blueberries. In studies NOT sponsored by drug companies, blueberries typically win as more safe and effective at lowering cholesterol. Is that not evidence? Drug companies can market drugs on TV so you know what to ask for when you visit the doctor, but if a supplement company writes on a bottle of blueberry extract "studies have shown that X amount of blueberries per day help lower cholesterol," that company would be taken to court by the FDA quicker than you can say heart attack. Read up on some cases they're currently involved in and you'll see what I mean.

See the problem yet?

There are too many politics at work for something as basic as health care, which inevitably makes people more susceptible to nonsense on both sides of the medical aisle.

And yes, people do write off natural medicine, just look at some of the comments before you.

Devon, Austin, Texas
October 28, 2008 6:51pm

Devon,I absolutely agree that straight to consumer advertising by drug companies(ie drug commercials on TV)should not be allowed. Oddly enough,it is for the exact same reason that you said. People go to their doctor not only hoping to get,but expecting to get the drug that they want. Where I differ from you is where I place the blame. It is not the doctor's fault because they have their hands tied when a person comes in demanding a drug. It is not the pharmaceutical company's fault because they are just trying to increase profits(something every company in existence does). The blame goes to government leaders for not making such advertising illegal,and partly to people like us who are not doing more to change the current laws.

I am a bit skeptical of your claim about blueberries and statins. A quick search on PubMed gave no results for studies involving statins and blueberries. I did find a few articles on natural supplement websites,but that is hardly an authoritative source. If you could, please link to the study that you are referring to. On the other hand,there are several peer reviewed studies showing the efficacy of statins.

I don't believe that the medical community writes off natural medicine,seeing that many drugs are modified versions of natural compounds. Even the statins mentioned above are a derivative of red yeast rice. The difference is that the medical community is more focused on showing efficacy under controlled conditions.

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
October 29, 2008 12:29pm

Steve, a MODIFIED version of a natural compound is not a natural compound. You are just using silly doublespeak to attempt to confuse the issue. The main reason they modify natural compounds is so they can get a PATENT on it. This is why they are not interested in natural compounds.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
October 29, 2008 3:29pm

"a MODIFIED version of a natural compound is not a natural compound."

This is true, it is a derivative of a natural compound. That isn't to say that no completely natural compounds are used in medicine. Lovastatin, the original statin, is the exact molecule that is found in red yeast rice. Quinine, the original treatment for malaria, is a naturally occurring molecule in the bark of the cinchona tree. This is exactly why the medical community still has interest in natural medicine. Once in a while, a natural cure displays measurable efficacy and finding out what causes that effect could advance medicine.

"The main reason they modify natural compounds is so they can get a PATENT on it."

False. The main reason that they modify the natural compounds is to change their activity. Replacing a hydrogen with a fluorine can shift electron distribution in the molecule making it more active (look into fluroquinolones). Altering the molecule can allow it to pass the blood/brain barrier, making it effective on the central nervous system (or allow it to better target any tissue for that matter). Changing structure can also help to alleviate harmful side effects (like changing salicylic acid into acetylsalicylic acid). As for getting a patent, why not patent a drug after spending tons of money and man hours on development and testing? A pharmaceutical company, like every other company on Earth, is trying to turn a profit. Just so happens they advance medicine while doing so.

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
October 29, 2008 4:15pm

The study was in American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, March 2006 edition. www.naturalnews.com tipped me off to it.

The author mentioned psyllium, but failed to mention that it is just a wheat-like plant, not just some random indusrty by-product. The husks are what many people use as a fiber supplement (it's got 10g of dietary fiber per 2 Tablespoons), myself included. My doctor had me on an IBS drug until, with the discovery of that website, I tried a few table spoons of psyllium husks in some apple juice per day, and I've been perfectly IBS free since, without expensive medication.

All in all, to each his own, I just thought felt compelled provide an alternative perspective on the issue.

Devon, Austin, Texas
October 29, 2008 6:53pm

If pharmaceutical companies are trying to turn a profit, then any natural compound or technique that they are not able to patent will be ignored in favor of a compound that they can patent even though the unpatentable natural compound or technique my be superior.

I like how you say that the blame goes to Congress rather than the pharmaceutical companies for not resisting the lobbying efforts of the pharmaceutical companies to block advertising reform. Oh ya Steve, that makes alot of sense.

Medical doctors and pharmaceutical companies are not interested in preventing diseases. That is why they have joined forces to form the “American Council on Science and Health” (www.acsh.org) to promote fast food burgers, trans-fat fries, cupcakes, double-layer cheese pizza, and sodas as being JUST AS HEALTHY as fresh fruits and vegetables and to promote chewing tobacco use as a HEALTHIER alternative to smoking tobacco. Note that Steven Barrett, M.D. from quackwatch.com is a scientific advisor to this “American Council on Science and Health.”

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
October 29, 2008 7:45pm

Boy have you misread their website Joe Schmoe.

Well, yeah fast food is healthy for you, provided you do not over do it. If you eat one or two hamburgers a day, you are within the safe bounds of eating. If you sit there and eat 5 of them in a day, you give yourself problems. Conversely, if you eat nothing but bananas in one day, you will make yourself sick. You will give yourself something called potassium poisining.

They advocate a balanced diet of meats, veggies and fruits. They do not claim that eating nothing but fast food is healthy for you. You were implying this with your BOLD FACE remarks.

They do advocate smokeless tobacco only if the person is tryin to quit. From their facts and fears website:
"ACSH encourages the use of smokeless products only for smokers who are trying to quit and have not succeeded with other quit aides. 'We're highlighting products that could save people's lives if they switched to them instead of smoking cigarettes,' Dr. Whelan says."

In other words, they do not advocate this product all the time. They are for it ONLY when the user is quitting smoking. Hardly an all the time thing like you are implying Joe.

Also, not all doctors are supporting this group. This is one group of doctors. The only way that all doctors support them is that this group practices good science.

Jake Ambrose, Holtville, Ca
October 29, 2008 8:25pm

First about the study, it is interesting but has many problems. First, the sample size is very small (n=34) making the results rather insignificant. Second, the drug used was lovastatin, which is not the most effective statin (it was the first one ever discovered). Third, the people placed on the statin did not alter their diets at all while the other group had their diets radically altered (they did not just add blueberries).

These are problems for two main reasons. First, no doctor worth his salt will ever prescribe a statin without recommending diet change (albeit not as severe as that in the study). They don't give you the drug and claim you can eat whatever you want. Second, the vast majority of people are not willing to alter their diet in the manner that was done in the study. Check out what they had to eat to see just how extreme it was.

Thank you Jake for your rational response to Joe's overstated remarks. I would like to add that natural compounds can be patented. Lovastatin, the naturally occurring compound in red yeast rice, is patented and sold under the name Mevacor. The reason that it is no longer the statin of choice is because other statins have been shown to be more effective (Lipitor and Crestor come to mind).

Also, is it really unreasonable of me to want congressmen to be influenced by the wants and needs of their constituency instead of by the gifts of lobbyists? That is how it is supposed to work.

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
October 31, 2008 10:54am

Jake-o,

First of all, it is not true that ACSH advocates moderation in eating. They call the concern over the obesity epidemic “hysteria” (1), advocate against consumers knowing the calorie or fat content of any American food product (2), and advocate AGAINST calorie reduction (3).

Second, it is not true that they advocate a balanced diet. Their definition of a “balanced diet” INCLUDES moderate amounts of sodas, Ho-Hos, and bourbon (4), they advocate kids eating NOTHING BUT traditional junk food INSTEAD OF something “new” like veggies and fruit (5), and they make VERY frivolous complaints about any plan to get people to eat more fruits and vegetables (6).

Third, type in “trans fats” and you will see that they scoff at ANY plan to eliminate ANY trans fats from the food supply. They THEN advocate eating as many cheezeburgers and fries as you want (3).

Lastly, you misread their tobacco policy as well. If you type in “harm reduction” you will see that they DO advocate smokeless tobacco for people unwilling to ever quit.

1. http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.1191/news_detail.asp

2. http://www.acsh.org/healthissues/newsID.814/healthissue_detail.asp

3. http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.375/news_detail.asp

4. http://www.acsh.org/healthissues/newsid.881/healthissue_detail.asp

5. http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.754/news_detail.asp

6. http://www.acsh.org/healthissues/newsID.1715/healthissue_detail.asp

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
October 31, 2008 8:39pm

You need to read the entire article, Jose Schmoe. If you get past the first paragraphs in all fo them, you will see that none of your claims are accurate. In short, all of the articles have a sentence along the lines of "we encourage proper nutrition education." You just scanned the articles looking for the words that you wanted to see, ignored the rest, then said this group is evil. if this was Bible, I might let you get away with it. Since this is not, I have to school you on what some of the articles are actually saying:

Link 3 is about parent accepting part of the blame for their kids weight problem. It is not an advocation of junk food.

link 5 was a rebuttal to a New York Times editorial piece from Harriet Brown. She is the one advocating Junk food, not the ACSH. If you read more of that article, it talks about proper diets, and how blaming specific foods can become obsessive.

link 6 is an attack against, in their eyes, a useless fad. "Proper nutrition will last longer than a season to quote the last line."

I did type in harm reduction like you suggested. I read the first 20. I did not see the words, "We, the members of the ASCH, advocate using, by any means necessary, harm reduction techniques." All of them said, compared to traditional quitting techniques, harm reduction techniques work better."

I repeat my previous assertion. If the scientific community agrees with the ACSH, it is merely because it the group is practicing good science.

Jake Ambrose, Holtville, Ca
October 31, 2008 10:14pm

Jake,

How noble of them to "encourage proper nutrition education." Did you know also that the goal of the North American Man/Boy Love Association is "educating the general public on the benevolent nature of man/boy love"?

Your analysis is so incredibly delusional. My previous post speaks for itself. It's obvious that a delusional or corrupt person cannot be reasoned with.

Steve,

The fact that they would put a patent on a naturally occuring compound then advocate the ban of any herb that contains that naturally occuring compound proves how corrupt they are. A sociopathic personality, of course, would not understand this concept. The whole herb itself, however, cannot be patented. A number of active ingredients working together in its original state often works better than one active ingredient that has been isolated and concentrated.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
November 01, 2008 2:39pm

Joe, I will have to conditionally agree with one portion of your post. Occasionally the cocktail of chemicals appearing in the original plant is more effective than any one isolated chemical (Marinol is a great example of this). The truth is that the majority of the time, there is one chemical in the plant that is causing the beneficial effect, and the rest are just there doing nothing, or not much. This is why it is worth extracting that chemical and purifying/standardizing its dose. It gives the effects of the plant in a more concentrated and controllable manner.

Once a drug is found, they don't automatically ban the substance that the drug was originally found in. They only ban it if the chemical contained within the substance is dangerous when it is not monitored. This is the reason that red yeast rice supplements were banned in the US. Though statins are effective, it is well known that they can cause kidney and muscle problems if they are not strictly regulated. When you consider that one serving of red yeast rice might have x amount of active ingredient and another serving might have 3x, it is not unreasonable to only allow the drug to be distributed through standardized means.

If anyone posting here is delusional, it would have to be you. You seem to ignore any and all evidence that goes against your way of thinking, and believe that the pharmaceutical companies are out to get you. That is pretty much the definition of delusional.

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
November 01, 2008 4:52pm

I am the delusional one, Joe Schmoe? Please explain why. Is it because I actually read the articles and not fell into the alarmist trap you fell into. But since I showed where your claims are wrong, that mean I must be delusional.

First, I have looked at all of your article you referenced and did not discover any of the alarmist things that you are concerned about. In fact, none of the articles you mentioned dllude to any of your claims whatsoever. None of them did. But I'm delusional because read them, silly me!

Is it really so bad to teach children what they should eat instead of having a prohibition on junk food, fast food or any of the other foods you do not like? Well, I guess you are right since we all know how well the last prohibition worked. But I'm the delusional one because I think education is better than leglislating morality.

Then, when you did not have a snappy comeback, you threw out a red herring about the North American Man/Boy Love Association. Are you really trying to say that these people are not better than pedophiles? But, they are not same because you can actually research the pedophile group and discover their slogan is bullshit. But I must be the delusional one because I did not go Goose-stepping with you.

If you know so much about the ACSH that I am not aware of, why don't you show the evidence. If you cannot show the evidence without name calling or red herrings, then it is just a bunch of hot air.

Jake Ambrose, Holtville, Ca
November 01, 2008 8:22pm

First, I will reality test your delusions in your previous post:

Link 3 advocates that there is no such thing as "bad food" and that “the real message” we should be sending to “fat kids” is that “one could eat as much” “cheeseburgers and fries” “as one wished.” The first law of thermodynamics does not protect one from cholesterol and trans fats.

Link 5 is an AGREEMENT, not a rebuttal, to Harriet Brown’s comment about letting kids eat "soda, cupcakes, ice cream, and second helpings of pizza." The ONLY THING ACSH criticized Harriet Brown about was that "she did not buy fast food or soda for her children."

Now, I will reality test your delusion that "none of the articles you mentioned dllude to any of your claims whatsoever.":

I claimed that "it is not true that ACSH advocates moderation in eating." Link 3 says that
“the real message” we should be sending to “fat kids” is that “one could eat as much” “cheeseburgers and fries” “as one wished and lose weight.” Link 5 calls "childhood obesity" "an alleged health hazard."

I said that "it is not true that they advocate a balanced diet." Link 4 recomends that "there is room" for "soda, [HO-HOs], or bourbon" to be "part of a varied, balanced diet." Link 5 says that "instead of advocating new, more nutrient-dense foods" we should advocate "frenchfries," "cupcakes," "soda," "potatochips," "mayonnaise," "oleomargarine," and "popcorn."

I hope this was therapeutic for you. If not, I recommend anti-psychotics.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
November 02, 2008 10:08pm

Joe, I just had the time to read your articles and here are my impressions.

Article 1 is about the potential of posted nutritional information in college dining halls promoting eating disorders. This seems to be a valid concern, especially when eating disorders are so prevalent on college campuses.

Article 2 is about the relabeling of food. It contends that the cost of relabeling is large and will be passed on to consumers, while the benefits will be minuscule if any. I would have to agree.

Article 3 is basically saying that lack of exercise and not what a child eats is making them fat. If exercise increases with food intake, you will maintain or even lose weight.

Article 4 talks about vending machines in schools. It argues that under nutrition is not a problem, but over consumption is. Replacing a 110cal soda with a 150cal fruit juice will not make children thinner. The "soda, desserts, bourbon" part is immediately followed by "in moderation with exercise."

Article 5 discusses the benefits of modifying currently popular foods to make them healthier. It also reiterates that specific foods don't make kids fat, just bad overall diets.

Article 6 attacks an obviously flawed program that is supposed to give overpriced organic food to the poor for free.

All of the quotes in your above post are cherry-picked and make perfect sense in context. Your interpretation of these articles is so obviously biased that it makes me wonder if you have even read them in their entirety.

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
November 03, 2008 6:51am

I hate to tell you Joe, but you are cherry picking your sources. Not only is that a violation of the 9th commandment, it is also a crime. (Libel)

Here is your quote: Link 5 IS a rebittal Link 5 says that "instead of advocating new, more nutrient-dense foods" we should advocate "frenchfries," "cupcakes," "soda," "potatochips," "mayonnaise," "oleomargarine," and "popcorn."

Your quotes mean you are taking things out of context. Yes, they were in the article, but you did not quote them properly. That part of the article was referencing to Olestra, you know the "healthy" synthetic oil. Not only that, you pieced together twoseparate parts of the article together. Here are the actual quotes you got your pieces from:

"Instead of just trying in vain to get kids to abandon their favorite snacks, [President Clinton] has pledged to work with food companies and food vendors to reduce the amounts of all forms of dietary fat in the items kids love to eat, including French fries and pizza."

"Olestra has been tested and studied for over thirty years, is both safe and versatile, and can take the place of fat in products such as mayonnaise, salad dressings, oleomargarine, peanut butter, and chocolate."

That paper is advocating a product that has been proven to lower cholsterol. It is not an endorsement of fatty foods.

Try again, but your beliefs about the company are jibing with evidence. Instead of cherry-picking them read the articles completely.

Jakob Ambrose, Holtville Ca
November 03, 2008 8:32am

alot of the stuff they sell to detox your body is just a money maker the only way to keep your self healhy is to eat right work out and watch our carbohydrates. go to the docter for check ups and take your vitamis and eat your veggies.Work out enough to make it not a stress on your body to keep you healthy.

ian h, estacada OR
November 03, 2008 2:05pm

I'm not surprised that on a site all about trashing ideas that the people can't even have a civil discussion - despite the fact that they seem reasonably well educated.
Intelligent people only have knowledge. It's the wise that know how to apply it, and to persuade others.

Shouting louder, especially in words, has NEVER changed a single mind. Both sides on here sound pathetically roid-raged. Gain control over your composure!

-------

While there is no doubt a lot of snake oil salesmanship in the organic and alternative health community it's very misleading to make this article and post it causing people to doubt that you can have toxins within the body.
It's a very well understood concept that there are harmful contaminants stored in fat cells in the body. For example, the FDA warns against over-consumption of sushi due to mercury and other heavy metals STORED IN FISH CELLS. Now if fish can store "toxins" don't you think we might be able to?
It's solely in the fat cells that foreign cont. are stored. However, another very common toxin storage is not actually foreign, it's produced in the body. Urea, acids, and other nitrogenous waste are well known to become lodged in muscle and organ tissues.
So far the best method to detoxify the body is the cheapest: sweat via exercise and drink good sources of water. The water is the substrate for blood to clean and the exercise pumps blood faster. The sweat drains fat cells and pushes waste into blood via osmosis. Simple, easy.

A Careaga, San Diego, CA
November 15, 2008 10:46am

@ Careaga

You start out very well, but then veer wildly into the woo-woo zone.

Yes, fish can store "toxins", but by the quotation marks you yourself put there, you allready show this is not the type of toxin that de-tox people talk about. It's a identifiable, quantifiable substance.

Then, it goes downhill fast.
Urea and nitrogenous waste does not become "lodged in muscle and organ tissues", unless you're doing something very stupid, like not drinking for days on end. Only fat-solluble materials can accumulate in the body, which is most heavy metals, some vitamins etc.

Water solluble compounds, like urea, chlorine, acids and the like cannot accumulate in the body, and will flush out right away.

Unless you have health problems, your kidneys and liver will do an excellent job of getting rid of any urea and other waste. They even filter out the mercury salts in fish, though that takes quite a while (76 day half-life).

Drinking extra water does nothing for the body, except reduce the chance of kidney stones. You don't get rid of more waste just because there's more water.

Sweat barely contributes to waste expulsion, the only reason it contains sodium and potassium is because the blood plasma has those minerals in it, and it's still only measured in grams per liter.

Exercise also does nothing to get rid of waste. Your body only cleans an X ammount of blood per hour, wether that blood flows fast or slow doesn't matter in the slightest.

Marcel, Reykjavik, Iceland
November 17, 2008 4:54pm

Hey look, if I don't want to put stuff in my system that will glue my intestines shut on top of spending a small fortune for the "privilege", that's my fucking perogative. All you anti-"Western Medical Establishment" paranoiacs & politicos don't need to be policticising the issue and making me the "Pro MD Nazi" just because I don't fancy the prospect of gutting out my innards with psyllium, etc. It also strikes me as odd that the site admin here doesn't follow his own rule(as he states): "Discuss the issues - personal attacks...will be deleted". I guess, as always, that's ok as long as you fall on the "left hand side" of any argument online. I just read all this crap, and I wish I had that part of my life back.

John Q., Frozen Shithole, Antarctica
November 20, 2008 5:38pm

Mucoid plaque is not simply the excretion of the psyllium and bentonite shake because MDs have long decribed mucoid plaque in people not ingesting any of it:

"The mucous masses are white, grayish white, or a color due to the mixing of mucus and feces, yellowish brown. . .The mucous masses may be transparent like slime, or opaque like fibrin, of a grayish white, or a dirty color with pigment in it. Sometimes the masses consist of large, wide and thick leathery-like membranes; at other times, long ribbon-like bands or rope-like coils. . .Chemical examination reveals mucin, or mucin-like material, as the chief constituent." -- Byron Robinsona, M.D. The Abdominal Brain and Automatic Visceral Ganglia (1899) p210-213 books.google.com

“When one sees the dirty gray, brown or blackish sheets, strings and rolled up wormlike masses of tough mucus with a rotten or dead-fish odor that are obtained by colon irrigations, one does not wonder that these patients feel ill and that they obtain relief and show improvement as the result of the irrigation.” – Bastedo, M.D. Colonic irrigations: their administration, therapeutic application and dangers JAMA (1932) v98 p736

To drive the point home, it’s a verifiable fact that psyllium and bentonite shakes were not used with colon irrigations until SOMETIME AFTER 1935:

http://www.veirons.com/aboutus_founder.html

I have verifiable facts whereas you have nothing but emotionally charged assumptions.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
November 22, 2008 8:13am

The writer is correct in claiming that our kidneys and liver are excellent detoxifying and elimination organs. It is also true, however, that the human body was never designed to deal with the elimination of certain substances (eg: heavy metals). These substances collect in our systems, compromising the effectiveness of our otherwise perfectly capable elimination organs.

There are many pricey and ineffective detoxification systems out there, but it need not be as expensive as the writer seems to suggest. It can also be (somewhat) achieved by practices such as fasting, which requires no expenditure whatsoever.

I personally have never undergone detoxification, but have looked at pictures of mucoid plaque from the Blessed Herbs website. If it is, as the writer claims, simply a mixture of bentonite and psyllium, then all mucoid plaque should be the same colour and texture. However, there seems to be quite a degree of variability between the examples posted on the website.

Shirley, Sydney, Australia
November 24, 2008 8:49pm

Joe,

I am glad to see that you gave up your tirade against the above mentioned ACSH articles that were ruthlessly cherry-picked. It is not surprising, however, that you are now cherry-picking articles that are over a hundred years old (not exactly current medical understanding) and endorsing outdated practices (colonic irrigations have long been discredited due to their dangerous nature and lack of efficacy). The "verifiable facts" that you bring to the table always fall short of being completely honest. That was shown several posts ago when the MD looked into your previous claims. In order to support your hypothesis, you always need to edit the information that you find in order to make it match your beliefs.

How is this for verifiable proof? In the US more than 15 million colonoscopies are performed annually. Each person getting one of these exams is given a powerful laxative before the procedure (many have said that Go Lightly is quite the misnomer). After voiding, these 15 million Americans find nothing in their toilet except for very loose stools. Shouldn't a large percent of them be finding mucoid plaques?

Shirley,

The muciod plaques produced by the bentonite and psyllium are also mixed with feces. They should vary in color and texture as much as normal feces does, which is quite a bit. What toxin in the body is present in large enough amounts to significantly alter the color of the plaque (for example, mercury at 200ug/L is extremely high)?

Steve Loeffelholz, LeClaire, IA
November 25, 2008 10:49am

First, you refer to that post where that MD set up a "straw man" logical fallacy, falsely claiming that my blog said that MDs think all those endoscopy pictures show healthy or "normal" mucosa. My blog said no such thing as that. Because he was not able to effectively refute the arguments, he had to come up with an imaginary argument to refute.

Concerning the ACSH articles, if you look back you will see that you totally ignored my original argument that set you off on this "cherry picking" accusing tirade. I said that it is not true that ACSH advocates a varied balanced diet (of fruits and vegetables) because link 4 recommends that there is room for soda, [HO-HOs], or bourbon to be part of a varied, balanced diet and link 5 recommends that instead of advocating new, more nutrient-dense foods (a.k.a fruits and vegetables) we should advocate frenchfries, cupcakes, soda, potatochips, mayonnaise, oleomargarine, and popcorn.
I'm sorry Steve, but Olestra, which Jakob is fond of, is not part of a varied balanced diet of fruits and vegetables. Jakob engineered a false accusation of libel as a distraction from the original argument.

Finally, your response that I am now using old sources is pretty lame and weird considering that I intended to prove that MDs have HISTORICALLY LONG AGO described mucoid plaque before psyllium and bentonite shakes were ever used, thus discrediting the "rubbery cast" theory.

This is all dishonesty and manipulation.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
November 26, 2008 1:09am

Jose Schmoe said:
"I said that it is not true that ACSH advocates a varied balanced diet (of fruits and vegetables) because link 4 recommends that there is room for soda, [HO-HOs], or bourbon to be part of a varied, balanced diet and link 5 recommends that instead of advocating new, more nutrient-dense foods (a.k.a fruits and vegetables) we should advocate frenchfries, cupcakes, soda, potatochips, mayonnaise, oleomargarine, and popcorn."

Why do you think we have short memories? You never said anything that even came close to this. I read those articles too.

Article 1 says nothing about sodas. The underlying message of it is bad nutrition is still better than no nutrition.

Article 2 mentions nothing about advocating anything fatty.

Article 3 has nothing about the items you mention it says it does, but it does have this little tidbit that betrays their position:
"I have a solution. Focus on getting [kids] to turn off the television and take the dog for a long walk. And instead of a Playstation, get them a bike"

Article 4 I discussed the last time, the one that you blatantly ripped apart to get your position.

Article 5 reinforced their original position: fatty foods do not make people fat.

Article 6 has nothing about bad foods. Just anger at misplaced funds.

When I caught you the last time about your claim, you resorted to using an ad hominium by comparing them to pedophiles. You also misquoted them. That's the libel you used to deflect us from topic.

jakob ambrose, holtville ca
November 26, 2008 5:24am

I never said anything that even came close to this?! Click on the show all comments function then do control F to find the phrase "it is not true that they advocate a balanced diet" You will find two of my posts where I said all of that.

You, of course, already know this and the rest of your diatribe is just a continuation of your desperate strategy to spew out crazy nonsense in a lame attempt to confuse people.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
November 26, 2008 1:39pm

Very nice writeup on detox cleansing. (http://detoxcleansing.org) I appreciate the in depth review of the topic and the additional information that was not presented previously.

<a href="http://detoxcleansing.org">Detox Cleansing</a>, Columbus Ohio
December 15, 2008 8:29pm

I will agree with Dunning that, like all areas of consumer interest, deception is involved in health matters, ignorance is exploited with an eye toward profit-making.

However, if you are not a vegetarian or watch your diet extremely closely, it is a guarantee that your lower intestine is full of feces that are often ready to be expelled days before they actually are. Why then does your body hold onto it longer than necessary?

How late in life did you discover good bacteria for the stomach?

Ever give yourself an enema? The first couple times I did, I was horrified at how much CRAP my body was holding onto, for no reason whatsoever.

But after going vegetarian, increasing water intake and regular daily exercise, my monthly enemas showed nearly nothing but clean water.

What Brian should do is write about how malnutrition doesn't show symptoms early enough to correct.

We were killing ourselves as teenagers restricting our food to mostly junk and fast food. But we didn't really notice it, did we?

how the hell do you know whether some period of bad eating habits in your life isn't the reason for having dim vision, depression, lack of energy, etc, in later life?

What clinical trial would test people for 30 years in a controlled setting to see what the LONG TERM EFFECTS of bad diet were?

Do you know how to test for long term effects of bad diet? Or you do you just grab a spudnut and coffee and run out the door, knowing it ain't gonna kill 'ya?

name is irrelevent to argument, but knowing where I live sure makes or breaks my argument, eh?
December 18, 2008 12:38am

Well, because you went anonymous Name is irrelevant, that means we can take your claims with a grain of salt. If you do not have the courage to put your name on this argument, then we do not have to put any weight to it.

"What clinical trial would test people for 30 years in a controlled setting to see what the LONG TERM EFFECTS of bad diet were?"

Well, even though the question is rigged towards a position you think is unanswerable, it took me fifteen minutes to find the answer on Google Scholar.

In other words, nothing in North America because most people in the industrialized world do not suffer from malnutrition.

Enemas are not necessary for life. Eat enough grains and you will be regular.

We hold on to waste longer than needed because of evolution. As a species, humans have developed in such a way that we do not need to constantly eat all the time. Because of that, we have the luxury of holding onto our waste products.

If we developed in such a way that we derive our nutrition from grasses, then we would be constantly pushing wastes through our system.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley Ca
December 22, 2008 8:14am

"If we developed in such a way that we derive our nutrition from grasses, then we would be constantly pushing wastes through our system."-Joseph Furguson, Brawley Ca

Judging from evidence all to apparent, sometimes this is not the case.

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour Plain, Australia
December 22, 2008 2:49pm

Dunning did not even come close to discussing all forms of detox, and focused on the extreme con-focused detox methods that are obviously going to be out there. Just like anything else, someone will try to take advantage of the uneducated and the ill-informed and make some money off them.

The reality is, people eat a lot of junk, and many detox methods are just a method for removing that junk from your diet for a set amount of time, combined with a herbal laxative to remove waste that may be fermenting in your bowels, to allow your body to heal itself via its natural proceses such as the liver. It does not have to be about weird pills or get-healthy-fast-cure-alls. Also, it is mainly North America that does not view Naturopaths as respected practitioners in addition to medical dcotors. Why? Probably because all we want is a medical doctor to give us a pill to heal us, rather then consider our natural systems and take responsibility for our own health.

Denise, Edmonton, AB
December 29, 2008 5:49pm

So Denise, rather than let my body do its normal thing, you're saying I should buy pills from a naturopath?

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
December 30, 2008 9:25am

Well i was skeptical about mucoid plaque as well.Im 38 year old male.

Over the past 2 days i have been taking Vitamin shoppe "Colon Enhancing powder" and Vitamin Shoppe "Psyllium Husks" powder.

a teaspoon of each for 2 days .And i just had mucoid plaque come out .Not the black ropey looking snake,But the slimey stuff you see in photos when mucoid typed in yahoo.

The stuff "IS" real ,and i suppose if you don't flush it out.It can harden over decades and become like rubber.

I got the picture to prove it,I feel so much better .Also better knowing those toxins aren;t in my body

Jay, West Palm Beach florida
December 30, 2008 1:54pm

Placebos are very effective if you believe in them before you take them. I take Metamucil containing Psillium fiber and regularly expel a similar substance as found in the pictures on these cleansing sites. It's not as dramatic, but I imagine if it contained bentonite as well that it would be. I've also had a colonoscopy and saw the pictures and even though being told by Drs that I suffer from conditions that these products claim to cure, my bowels are pink and shiny and clean.

During my wife's pregnancy, I refrained from alcohol for the full 9 months, during which time much of my symptoms subsided.

So what am I saying? Well, I agree that our overall health and well being can be affected by bad diet or "toxins", but wouldn't it be much easier to just stop ingesting these toxins instead of "dragging" them out with clay on a reular basis?

Once the general public realizes that these products are in fact a hoax and business diminishes at least the manufacturers will have the last laugh in knowing that they made thousands of people play with their own poop and take pictures of it to prove it.

Greg, Janesville, WI
January 03, 2009 3:18pm

conclusion: "snake oil" country! we have to stop and use critical thinking!

alexin007, california
January 05, 2009 12:38am

This article, linked by a member of Sparkpeople, was extremely helpful. I will forward this link to two people I know that are seriously considering doing this. They even got me to thinking it couldn't be that bad and prompted me to start really researching colon cleansing. During my search I found a natural way to cleanse, with something called psyllium. I will do more research on that before I try it. I already eat clean which is one of the things all the colon cleanser mentioned to do. At least for now, I think I have enough ammo to keep my 2 friends from buying the pills/powder from the leading colon cleansing sites.

Thanks for this article!

the_alexis, Baltimore, MD
January 07, 2009 7:26am

It's just sad that a few bad examples make people think that all detoxification programs are bad.

Sure, in a normal world your liver and kidneys would have no problems getting rid of most toxins.

But we are not in a "normal" world anymore. We are in a world full of man made chemicals that we breath, eat, drink and even get injected with.

sources: My, Myself and a healthy body.

I take Glycine and several other nutrients to help my body detoxify.

john the man, Boston
January 12, 2009 12:37am

Wow, I was close to buying one of these natural "colon cleansers". I've been using psyllium for awhile, I like my fiber.
Recently I passed a "mucoid". immediately I assumed that where there's one, there must be more...never realizing that the "mucoid" was comprised of psyllium itself! duh!
great site, thanks!

mr poop, cape cod
January 12, 2009 11:22am

Thanks for the information, my husband and I were thinking of a colon cleanse, now I'm not, hope he won't. Can't believe I almost fell for that one.

Linda Kor, Braggs, Oklahoma
January 16, 2009 6:33am

Have you tried it? Do you know what you talk about? Or are you just one of these "I'm against anything I can't prove?" ... Can you prove the existence of God?

So dear friend, how about you invest these 90 USD - you for sure can spare that money by avoiding to go to a fancy restaurant or reduce on gasoline spending, hm?

I just finished the internal cleansing kit of blessedherbs.com - and I'm frequently using detox pads and although all claims that you make - me and others having dirty feet - might be correct, you have no clue about the FEELING that occurs when you put the patches on and let them work; neither do you have any clue about the great feeling after cleansing your organs, your colon. You have to try it to know it - or - please be so kind if you did, write us WHICH kit you used so know what exactly you talk about.

My experience is that there was a lot and I mean a LOT coming out of me which was stuck there for a long time. I feel relieved - no - not money wise as you claim - mentally, physically - and if I tell you now that I lost 4kg in 5 weeks while eating normally? and if on top I told you that I'm down 2 sizes while eating normally ... What's the argument now?

What was your point anyway? To make these products look bad or do you have anything else for us?

Thanks for your answer to liz.henniez@gmail.com

Liz, Europe
January 25, 2009 6:05am

liz.henniez@gmail.com

I love people like Liz, I should send her and email claiming I am an orphan in Africa and ask for her bank account numbers so I could send her my last dollar. I love suckers!

I actually tried some of these products. Ineffective but I had to know for myself. Great scam for a small business I think I lost a few hundred bucks soaking my feet but the chick was hot I had to go back.

Thomas Zychowski, Winnipeg, Canada
January 28, 2009 10:12pm

Who wouldn't feel better when they see crazy gooey shit coming out of them? It's easy to tell yourself you feel better when you see that stuff. "I must feel better if that crap is coming out" It's also easy to provide a "feeling" while using these wonder foot pads. Put something as simple as peppermint in there and oh look a tingling feeling, it must be working. But don't worry Liz, we won't judge you for wasting money due to sheer gullibility.
This article is right on track. Good work

Celine Poulin, Toronto, Canada
January 31, 2009 10:57am

I think you are totally incorrect. I had a colon cleansing done at a spa, and I saw corn float by the window, which I could see everything coming out of me. Mind you I hadn't eaten corn in over a month. So how come it was still there? Oh may be because it was stuck in me, and needed to come out. So before you judge try it out, and see for yourself. I get one package done every 6 months and it has totally helped me. But then again, you people are probably all just going to think I am a weirdo, so when you die of some cancer, you can be pissed you didn't clean out your body before hand.

Ashley, LA CA
February 02, 2009 11:50am

Water fasting (i.e. 5-9 days water only, no food or juice) without herbs has produced the same effects of strange poo for many people.
The Western diet is largely devoid of fiber and full of stuff that doesn't expel easily, and it should come as no surprise that a build-up might occur.
Cleansing doesn't require buying a bunch of expensive products (try juice and a metamucil for a week), and can certainly help reestablish the ecology of one's body. The issue I see is not in whether or not one ought to fast or cleanse, but rather whether one ought to spend a lot of money in support of those trying to capitalize on something that most people could do on their own.

A Row, Oregon
February 03, 2009 12:40pm

Amen A Row,
Doctors don't practice anything until it can be empirically confirmed which would be incredibly invasive, but that doesn't mean it is ineffective or malarky. And yes, the bentonite does make the rope, but if you tried turning bentonite into that rope outside of the intestine it would not work...it's the result of binding with a plethora of intestinal contents via it's high surface area and electrical charge (which can indisputably be proven to attract certain chemicals in lab tests).
Doctors have resented chiropracters, psychologists and every other healing science that couldn't be absorbed into their practice for as long as there have been doctors. Just because your practitioner does not believe in or support a practice does not mean it's erroneous, especially when they are all taught the AMA approved learning systems (at least in the US). One must always remember and even approach cautiously anything they undertake, with or without a doctor's support, but if a paradigm is effective, use it. The perfect example is caloric heat theory: for a long time scientists didn't understand how heat transferred, but they thought they did and employed their theory effectively until it was disproven. Just like how gravity keeps working and we've never found a graviton.

Rob, Chicago
February 10, 2009 12:02pm

I have tried the foot pads, I know people will stay it does not work or that its all in my head, but after using them for a few weeks I felt better. I slept better, woke up easier, and was in a better mood. I have kindey problems and they hurt often, but didn't hurt when I was using the foot pads, so they had to help at least some.

Brandy, Oklahoma
February 23, 2009 11:13am

Brandy: It's called the placebo effect.
I'll stick with the "all natural" method I was designed with (on which people have been relying for thousands of years): my liver & kidneys.

Bucky, Nashville
February 23, 2009 12:25pm

Hey Bucky, the most important aspect of detox is cleaning out your liver and kidneys, which are in bad shape in most people.

Chris, Vancouver, BC
February 23, 2009 1:50pm

Define "bad shape" and "most people"....

Brenton, New Zealand
February 23, 2009 2:06pm

Whatever! I know the psyllium works but if the doctors aren't getting their cut ofcourse they will argue that it is fake. I feel better even if it is in my head. Atleast better than any meds made me feel. Thank you to all the doctors for signing peoples death cert. with a paycheck. I guess that is why their are more PA's than Doc's. Its funny how the docs prescribe so much medication but won't ever try these meds their self. bad shape and most people doesn't have to be defined.

Debora, Myrtle Beach, SC
February 25, 2009 2:24pm

Debora, you make a compelling argument.

Now, would you just mind rephrasing it so it makes sense...?

"Most people" don't have kidneys or livers in "bad shape" - because "most people" are perfectly healthy and don't need any sort of medical intervention through most of their lives.

Healthy kidneys and livers are pretty much essential to even live - the smallest upset in either organ can lead to quite nasty medical complications. Kidney stones (for example) are intensely painful

As for doctors not using medication, what do you base that on?

Doctors get sick, just like other people. They use medication when appropriate, just like other people.

Brenton, New Zealand
February 25, 2009 2:51pm

First I would like to tell those reading this article that the standard medical community has limited to no idea how to test or treat someone who has been environmental poisend. I have not known one MD who even understands what these toxins do if you can find them in your blood and the correct medical tests to run. But they are out there. Even if they did the symptoms are considered psychotic and you need a drug to fix that. You know your body best and do not let the medical community tell you what to do with your own body. The reality is this is a specialized and growing field in both the medical and natural health community. If you are sick there is help out there. No one cares about you more than you. Do your homework an make sure they know how to test and how to treat you based on science. It takes years to truly detox and get well, but you can get well.

Evironmental Expert, Pittsburgh/PA
February 27, 2009 4:18pm

Couldn't agree with you more, my friend. I recently received a whole box of "as seen on TV" crap as joke gifts for my birthday. Among them were the Kinoki foot pads. I immediately saw they contained vinegar, which as you say, turns brown when it comes into contact with human sweat. The tourmaline, or sand, also reacts to the acids in vinegar, making a funky greenish color, so that even people with super clean and non-sweaty feet will see a gratifying change. The colon cleanse stuff is hilarious as well. Basically a laxative with inert bulking agents so you poop out a shrieking horror. I have a background in renal dialysis (as a tech) and I can tell you that the best way to help your liver and kidneys "detox" your body is to drink a lot of clean water, lay off the booze and/or recreational drugs, eat a low fat/hi-fiber diet, and don't tax your system with boatloads of unneeded homeopathic nostrums or herbal remedies that serve no purpose other than to make your poor liver and kidneys work harder, filtering all that useless crap out of your blood! You can't live on martinis and potato chips and expect Kinoki footpads to save the day, man.

AuntTre, Chicago, IL
February 28, 2009 10:29am

I have used a colon cleansing kit once before and intend to use it again. I can't say that I was entirely convinced of the 'mucoid plaque' argument made by the manufacturers, and your explanations of the rubber 'cast' makes sense. However, the intense, great feeling of cleansing the body following the detox, was worth the money alone.

I have always thought that ridding the body of 'crap' through fruit, veg and water whilst on an occasional, short detox, was the the best way to do it - but doing that never left me feeling as energized as the kit did. I also lost weight (pretty obviously) and whilst I did go back to my old ways somewhat, the weight stayed off, which I didn't think would happen.

As a result of your interesting written explanation, I will get less excited over the gross 'discharges' than I did before, but I will still remain positive about the general feeling of well being that I expect to encounter. Last time, my energy levels were up, I did not catch the colds that were going around (as I normally would have) and whilst on holiday in the back and beyond... I was the only one of 9 people that did not end up sick!

Whether all in the mind, or purely coincidence, I felt it worked for me last time and am starting another one tomorrow and look forward to positive 'outcomes'!

Chris, Buckingham, UK
March 08, 2009 12:31pm

A toxin is defined by common sense as "anything that is toxic".

The difference between alternative and conventional practicioners is that alternative people work with the body, and conventional people do whatever reduces symptoms. Cooperation versus domination, or perhaps even ignorance.

If the psyllium complex is false and mucoid plaque does not exist the way this implies, why is it very few people experience the removal of this plaque right away?

It's a slow, steady process, and for an explanation of how it works, visit http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/colon/Journey-to-the-Center-of-Your-Colon.php for an explanation on exactly what is going on.

So tell me skeptics, what is inside the abdomens of those men out there with skinny legs and giant, swollen bellies? There isn't that much fat on them, yet these people almost look pregnant. What is it inside them that is swelling their stomach that much?

Better yet, what causes those dead-end diagnoses like IBS, Crohn's disease and Leaky Gut Syndrome?

In short, read the linked article.

Jeremy Porter, Chicago, IL
March 09, 2009 9:39pm

If you're referring to the distended abdomens we see in pictures of starving children in developing nations, that's usually caused by parasite infection.

Eric Schulman, Corona, CA
March 10, 2009 11:29am

Another cause is most likely to be a protein deficiency. It is commonly called "kwashiorkor".

And as suggested by Eric, it is a symptom of malnutrition, not over-feeding or retained faeces.

Brenton, New Zealand
March 10, 2009 2:08pm

"There isn't that much fat on them, yet these people almost look pregnant. What is it inside them that is swelling their stomach that much?"

Fat. Just because the fat is preferentially stored in the abdomen does not mean "there isn't much fat"! I assure you, it IS fat.

Steve Johnson, Olathe, KS
March 10, 2009 8:22pm

Rubbery bowel casts sounds like a great idea for a modern art exhibition: "Mucoid Glitterati". Check out an insider's view of Hollywood stars. ;-)

Alan Chambers, Cambridge, England
March 18, 2009 4:19am

I would like to ask you,iwas going to start taking Acai Berry Weight Loss and Colon Cleanse do you think i would lose weight or its bad for health?

josie, Malta
April 02, 2009 2:14pm

No, I don't think it would cause you to lose weight by itself. You may also need to exercise and cut out some other foods.

Yes, a colon cleanse can be a *very* bad idea. There is a real possibility of damage to your bowel if not done properly.

If you are serious about losing weight, consider just doing the exercise and cutting back on the calories.

This is all that you really need to do.

Brenton, New Zealand
April 02, 2009 2:33pm

Uhm, what a load of manure... so to speak. Colon cleanses Do produce results that are Not merely a cast of clay. In fact most bentonite detox plans take a good while to work as it works by passing through your system. If it was swallowed in large amounts and was enough to create a cast of rubber/clay material by itself you would be enduring intense cramping and pain. Also the pills are not as effective as getting it in the liquid form. a tablespoon or two a day at most with a teaspoon of Psyllium powder and mixed up with some purified water and then followed by a daily intake of significant water intake. a huge bottle of the stuff cost me $7 and $3 for the psyllium. so much for $88 myths. there are all kinds of toxins and parasites that live in your digestive tract. Bentonite is not some recent fly by night cure all claim from the extreme tree huggers. It's been around for millions of years and has been widely revered for it's use by many cultures, who incidentally had a much lower incidence of problems in this area of health.
To call the average american's diet perfect and to suggest a lot of the food we consume doesn't have toxins in it is purely an act of ignorance and naive mindset. Weight loss on this stuff? I have no clue as I don't use it as a weight loss agent and don't monitor my weight but I'd say it probably doesn't have any significant applications as a weight loss agent. still many professionals have always said Death starts in the colon for what its worth.

Steve, Akron
April 05, 2009 12:28pm

Toxins: What the EPA goes after. You know, carcinogins, chemical poisons. Toxins.
Imaginary illness: I invite you to drink some Agent Orange (toxin) every day for a couple of months. See how you do.
Mucoid plaque: Found over 40 pounds of it in John Waynes colon.
Self medicating: Over 120,000 people a year die from their prescription drugs. Another 90,000 from secondary infections from hospital stays. Iatrogenic diseases are now the number one killer in America. Passed Heart disease a couple of years ago. 860,000 a year dead. Iatrogenic = caused by the doctor or his treatment. And that's just the tip of the iceburg. Doesn't include the creation of "terminal" and many other things.
So with stats like that you better learn how to take care of yourself.
Better learn HOW to get healthy and stay healthy.

Medical paradigm = no cures.

Natural healing paradigm = getting healthy.

I respectfully suggest you turn your skeptic eye on your beloved medical profession. You won't like what you find. Genocide pure and simple.

Doc Sutter
Chiropractor, Vietnam veteran, Cancer survivor.

Doc Sutter, Rokford, Mi.
April 06, 2009 6:30pm

Medical paradigms that offer no cures: Small pox, Bubonic plague, Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Tetanus, Yellow Fever, Pneumonia, Rheumatoid arthritis and so on.

Medical paradigms that do not offer cures but can improve the quality of life: Well every illness and disease known to man. If you catch them early enough then there is a huge survival rate.

Alternative cures that offer testable benefits: Well there aren't any.

Nice little argument ad absurdium with the Agent Orange thing. And that had what do with medicine.

John Wayne died of Colon Cancer and that has nothing to do with the supposed plaque in the body. The human body does not hold 40 pounds of waste.

It sounds like you are pulling those number out of your ass, they do not match the ones I got.

Okay, turn my skeptical eye towards Medicine what will I see.

I see something that saving the life of my mother right now with her heart failure.

It saved the life of my stepfather with both of his bouts of cancer, with his ruptured ulcer, and with both of his replaced knees.

It is currently keeping my grandmother alive and is preventing what is left of her mind from disappearing thanks to Alzheimer's disease.

Medical science is allowing my cousin to live a relatively normal life and not listening to all the voices in his including one that his long dead wife. Without Zoloft, he would be in a insane asylum.

So yeah, I see the benefits of medical science. The burden of proof was theirs and they met it.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 06, 2009 6:57pm

Right out of your last paragraph -

""A doctor won't lie to you""

This is the biggest lie of all!!

Don, L.A.
April 06, 2009 8:22pm

Care to quote the entire sentence next time Don?

"A doctor won't lie to you and say that a handful of herbal detoxification pills will cure anything that's wrong with you; but since that's the solution many people want, there's always someone willing to sell it."

What you are doing is called lying you are giving us a half truth. It is the same as lying.

Well he is right. None of my doctors have ever lied to me. I am pretty sure that none of yours lied to you as well.

Now telling me stuff that I do not want to hear, well that is often the case. My doctors have told me a lot of things that I was not aware of going on in my body right now. You probably mistook that for lying all the time.

But hey I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to the ones that have all that fancy equipment to test things like this out with.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 07, 2009 5:37am

I don't think anyone is truly denying that to a point and more accurately practiced in some areas more than others, western medicine obviously has it's place and has produced amazing results. However doctors and drug companies both also like to make their Mercedes payments and therefore realize theres no money in supporting natural healing which 99% of the time involves use of a non patentable herb or substance found in nature. Not all doctors of course think along those lines but a great many do. Additionally more doctors are also trained to disregard Eastern healing methods as quackary.
There are aspects which obviously support a non synthetic substance as having curative benefits. Unless you have a reason most of the Japanese who tend to drink a ton of green tea have some of the lowest cancer rates. Or even how the French, despite their obvious diet of rich and generally bad for you food still have a shockingly low heart disease rate. Wouldn't have a thing to do with all the red wine they drink or anything.
And like it or not, western medicine does tend to over prescribe meds that are either completely wrong for the ailment or not prescribed correctly resulting in some very unpleasant problems. How many times does a Dr do an MRI or CT scan and if all looks well enough they boot the patient to a shrink to go the rounds with SSRIs? Bet that 'mistake' has only happened a few million times.
To discount mucoid plaque as fiction or that toxins arent in our body is silly

William, Chicago
April 07, 2009 7:05am

"However doctors and drug companies both also like to make their Mercedes payments and therefore realize theres no money in supporting natural healing which 99% of the time involves use of a non patentable herb or substance found in nature."

What is this nonsense about not using natural remedies in western medicine?
Aspirin is derived from a natural cure. Topical pain relievers, like absorbine jr., are derived from arnica plants. Prilosec is based off a chemical found in a plant in the rain forest.

That is the short list. for the long list, go to this address:
http://www.rain-tree.com/plantdrugs.htm

What medical science does is take those natural cures and make them safer for more people. Alternative medicine is a hit or miss proposition.

I apply occam's razor to the concept of mucois plaque. Is there another explanation for mucoid plaque? Well yes there are two of them. That natural stuff like cat litter and a gelatin product. Those are more likely than these snakes living in the body.

The liver and the kidneys are very good at what they do and they do not need help.

I had my entire intestinal track videotaped a year ago. It was for a colonoscopy. They did not find seven pounds of anything there.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 07, 2009 8:47am

Medical Doctors are great!!
I would like to see more of them around so we can have more people on drugs.

Don, L.A.
April 07, 2009 2:57pm

"I see something that saving the life of my mother right now with her heart failure.

It saved the life of my stepfather with both of his bouts of cancer, with his ruptured ulcer, and with both of his replaced knees.

It is currently keeping my grandmother alive and is preventing what is left of her mind from disappearing thanks to Alzheimer's disease.

Medical science is allowing my cousin to live a relatively normal life and not listening to all the voices in his including one that his long dead wife. Without Zoloft, he would be in a insane asylum."

while you are thanking western medicine for all its miracles it is doing for you and your family you never asked youself what might have caused all this suffering in the first place, or?

aesculap, wherever
April 07, 2009 3:00pm

Actually I have asked that question. It is not faith in the medical science. it is stuff that had nothing to do with medical science.

What caused Stepfather's suffering is old age and genetics. His family is prone to getting cancer. It is the dominant trait in his family. He was going to get cancer regardless. The stomach ulcer was caused by stress.

My mom's suffering is caused by relying on her homeopath telling her that eating all these plants and tinctures would make her better. If she stopped taking the woo sooner, she would have been in the situation she is right now. Her reliance on a snake oil salesman caused her to get sicker. So my mom's suffering was caused by a homeopath and not medical science.

What caused my cousin's suffering is a combination of illegal drug use and mental insanity. He lost his mind because his wife died. Again, nothing to do with medical science.

So yeah I have looked into the cause of my families suffering and in all cases, it is not medical science. In my mom's case, it was caused by relying on homeopathy and alternative medicine. Still does not change the fact that my family is saved by the medical science that you want to hate so much.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 07, 2009 4:45pm

Eastern or Western medicine both have their down sides. No one is suggesting there is perfection on either end. But BOTH have very good elements. and Both can have very bad ones as well. If you mindlessly dose yourself with 20 different herbs without consulting a few Reliable sources then yes, your pretty open to some unpleasant side effects. But the same can be said of taking any number of synthetics which give one a list of a million possible side effects. typically printed in such a small font the average 60 year old couldn't read it if they tried.
So we've determined that both sides have their issues.
Detoxification is not a myth. The large intestine is typically cleaner than the small. If you contend that every colon or intestine is pink and clean then your nuts. Just go to Youtube and check any number of videos out and you can see some pretty gross things when they stick the scope up there. not the least of which is impacted or left behind matter. Mucoid plaque is definitely there. while I am not saying many of these photos on the net that show a string of gross looking pearls arent partly bentonite I can say that they are indeed some nasty matter attaching itself to it and this is the purpose of the cleanse. If our intestines were so peachy clean the stuff surely wouldnt come out looking like it does. Common sense knows many people eat toxic crap. Not all of it leaves the body. simple as that.

William, Chicago
April 07, 2009 5:04pm

My uncle was saved by medical science.
He had some discomfort digesting his food and it was recommended to him that he get some probiotics from the health food store and take that so his digestive abilities would be better.
Fortunately he got to a Dr. and was put him on a "special" diet of cheese and crackers, apparently for its mildness.
Within a week his tract was almost completely blocked up and emergency surgery was performed to remove a good portion of his colon.
Today he lives with a bag hanging outside his body and thanks the Dr.s for doing a clean job of removing all the remains of the cheese and crackers.

Don, L.A.
April 07, 2009 5:17pm

"No one is suggesting there is perfection on either end."

You might not be suggesting it William, but other people before you were suggesting that alternative medicines are better than western medicine. Please do not try a blanket response for all alternative medicine advocates because you are wrong to group them all.

"Common sense knows many people eat toxic crap. Not all of it leaves the body. simple as that."
Common sense is not always reality.
Common sense would dictate that clear water is safe to drink. That might be true in the house, when you out in the woods, you are better off boiling it. That is not common sense.

Common sense also says that you should not drink your own urine, but when you have no option, you can.

Common sense also indicates that you should not use snow to clean yourself off when you are wet. Guess what you can and it can get you drier than using towels as well.

Just because it appears to be common sense does not mean it is. Reality does not work the way you think it does.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 07, 2009 7:40pm

Well, I just detoxed myself by going on a raw foods diet and drinking solely water. It worked for me! That's the only way to 'cleanse' unless you take laxatives!

Aya, Scottsdale, AZ
April 08, 2009 2:53pm

You can trust your liver to do its function. You can trust the kidneys to do the same thing too.

Heck if you really want to make sure you are detoxed, do not use any alternative cures. Instead, have some dialysis done. That will filter out your blood too.

Ever wondered why your poop smells foul? That is your body getting rid of all the toxins from your food. If your urine is a deep orange, that is your body removing excess nutrients in the body also.

The body does a fine job getting rid of toxins. We should trust it to do its job.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 08, 2009 3:15pm

By that 'logic' Joe, you suggest that a guy can eat fast food 4 times a day and they can pretty much just let the body do it's job and they'll be just as good off as the others. Even on a great diet things get left behind. the scope doesn't lie. By your logic any person should be able to go in for the scope and all that will be seen is pink and pretty. Obviously this is Not true.
Your leaving yourself open if you think the advise of half the western doctors out there is anywhere near accurate.

Pharm companies have a vested interest in synthetic drugs. Drugs which are far from perfect and often times used for the wrong ailments. Not every natural remedy is used accurately either of course, but there is a profound logic to the use of Eastern medicine if you are to compare the health of society from nation to nation. I think there are extreme tree hugging nut jobs who go way overboard on the granola approach to life. In fact I can't stand the extreme elements of that group. But I am also not going to blindly surrender my health to just any western doctor for many are certifiable pawns of the pharm companies and that is that.

It would be nice if we were all genetically perfect and could expect to live 111 years but that is obviously not the case. Some diseases simply have no effective western cure where Eastern approaches would prevail. By the same token those who buy the herb of the month are also being pawns as well.

William, Chicago
April 08, 2009 4:10pm

The plan behind mainstream medical and medications is to eliminate symptoms.
If you eliminate symptoms then you can fool people into thinking that they are fixed.
They just have to take this pill for the rest of their life.
The bigger part of that plan is to avoid curing anything, because this creates repeat customers.
One of the wonderful things about medications is that since they are basically poison to the body, more problems are created for which there is always a medication for.
This is how the elderly have become such wonderful, faithful customers.
Many I know have a bag full of prescription bottles that are always in need of refilling.

Don, L.A.
April 09, 2009 11:52am

"One of the wonderful things about medications is that since they are basically poison to the body, more problems are created for which there is always a medication for."

Any sources to back up this claim? Besides personal anecdotes?

Joel Bethell, Ottawa, Canada
April 09, 2009 12:04pm

"Drugs which are far from perfect and often times used for the wrong ailments. Not every natural remedy is used accurately either of course, but there is a profound logic to the use of Eastern medicine if you are to compare the health of society from nation to nation."

The fact that drugs are often used for the wrong things has nothing to do with the drugs themselves. Most of the drugs used today are safe for about 95 percent of the people. We do not throw away the product because it has negative side effects in a few people. Everything has risks involved.

The drug being used for the wrong thing has nothing to do with the drug itself. It has everything to do with people making mistakes. You can make mistakes using eastern medicine as well.

The reason why some Asians live to be 111 years old is the same reason that some Europeans live to be 111 years old. It has nothing to do with what types of chemicals they use: it has more to do with the fact that they have genetics.

If you are trying to tell me that Eastern people live longer than Western people because of diet, well the truth is that Western people, with our evil pharmacorps, have 6 people older than 110. In fact the United States has 32 people verified to be older than 100. Japan has 20 and no other Eastern country is on the list.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 09, 2009 1:26pm

Even Nancy Reagan got it right.

Her slogan regarding drugs, intended to create a generation of people growing up to be drug free - "Just say no".

Don, L.A.
April 09, 2009 5:29pm

She was referring to illegal drugs and you know it.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 09, 2009 8:08pm

Except for pot, opium, heroin and hashish, almost all illegal street drugs were originally medical drugs including LSD.
Probably all barbiturates fit this category.
Uppers, downers.
Elvis Presley severely abused and killed himself with exactly these drugs which were supplied to him by dentists.
The point of the matter is, drugs are drugs and good ole Nancy got it right.

Don, L.A.
April 09, 2009 8:18pm

You are still taking this quote out of its original context because Nancy Reagan was referring to substances illegal at the time she said it. She did not grandfather in any drugs that were illegal for over 50 years before she started that campaign because they were not the ones that she was referring to in her speech. Once again you know this, so do not attribute this to something she never intended it be.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 10, 2009 5:45am

Irregardless of any speech that Nancy Reagan made as First Lady of the United States, the slogan she created called "just say no to drugs" is as applicable today as it ever was and ever will be, for drugs are poison to the body.
Do you have drugs in your medicine cabinet that you would like to justify the use of?

Don, L.A.
April 10, 2009 6:01am

Amen Don. If you hadn't noticed, Joseph picks a fight with everyone here and lends his own special 'logic' also known as twisted rationale.
Your words about Nancy were indeed correct. She is a wonderful woman and her late husband brought something good to all our lives.

I agree that detoxing with clay and other herbs is a valid and useful tool. There are many that have simply not known anything else than western medicine, which is of course not all bad, but it's hardly as safe a thing as Americans are led to believe. Good at some things for sure. Terrible at others.

James, Detroit
April 10, 2009 5:57pm

You claim that Joseph has twisted logic, Don and James, but you are applying something said in the 80's to a situation that it was never intended for? Talk about pot calling the kettle Black.

Joseph is correct in calling you out on it. Nancy Reagan was referring to illegal drugs and you know it. What you are doing is applying the statement to something it was never intended for.

It is not twisted logic to tell you that you are using the slogan wrong. It is not twisted logic to tell you how the slogan was used originally and by the people that still use it. It is not applicable to legal drugs because the government has laws that tell us what is legal and illegal.

What you are doing is twisted logic because you are twisting the original meaning to justify your attack on big pharma. The slogan's intent was for illegal drugs regardless of how you feel. It is common sense to use the slogan for its original purpose.

But whatever, if you want to hold onto that slogan to justify your little crusade against big pharma, then be my guest. I will not stop you anymore because only an insane person would realize they are not winning.

Jakob Ambrose, Holtville, Ca
April 10, 2009 6:22pm

What's wrong with an attack on "Big Pharma"?
Are you a part of that monster?

Don, L.A.
April 10, 2009 6:34pm

Read This site:

www.docsutter.com

read the TRUTH!

hilli, Norway
April 11, 2009 3:15am

There is only one way to test the effectiveness of Detox products. You need to conduct a clinical trial on all the common detox cures as well as one group using a placebo and one that is a control. Before the text, draw some blood. After 6 weeks, draw some more blood. If there are an unusual amounts of toxins in the control group, then there is enough evidence to do a longer study.

It cannot be anecdotal because there is no way verify the claims. What works for one person has no merit on how it works for another person. You need a study in order to weed out anecdotal evidence.

John McGee, Imperial
April 11, 2009 7:40am

Absolutely John!
Any health product on the market is basically worthless unless it has undergone a study similar to the requirements by the FDA for a drug.
Probably about a hundred million dollars later.
And due to the availability of studies, we can ignore personal testimonies that something is good and workable.

Don, L.A.
April 11, 2009 8:22am

If the product works like the detox people says it does, then they should subject it to the process.

What is the harm of playing the game that everyone else agreed upon? If the alternative product does the claim it says it does, then they have a test to point to and say see it works.

So far, the only study of alternative medicines comes from Europe and it discovered the only natural products that have any medical value are things that have already been synthesized into medicines.

I can make anecdotal claims all day long. Popcorn has allowed me to lose weight and it improved my out look on life. It works for me, but I do not claim it has any scientific weight to it.

Anecdotes do not make claims true. A real scientific study will be the only way to see if there is any validity to the claims.

John McGee, Imperial
April 11, 2009 12:02pm

""What is the harm of playing the game that everyone else agreed upon?""

For sure.

Of course "the game" was set up to make certain that nobody else can play except big pharma.

If there is something that "everybody" agreed upon regarding this then it clearly was done by force of hand.

Till then, why we'll only take something that has scientific proof behind it - hundred million dollars later.

Don, L.A.
April 11, 2009 2:01pm

There are some pretty intersting blogs here. I think I can simplify things a lot by saying that I have used the colon cleansers and have gotten out 15 pounds of colon mucoid plaque. I did not take 15 pounds of bowel cleanser. So much for the critics of that one. I also have done a parasite cleanse for many months passing about 7 quarts of visible parasites. Probably 90% of parasites are invisible. The idea has been proven that drugs predispose a hunan body to parsasites. I then proceeded to do a revised version of a liver flush. This is a very old remedy for a sick liver. It takes many of these to clean out stones and debris out of the liver. The liver is the body's filter. Junk is packed in there very tight and in finality, stops the liver from functioning. I had diabetes. I do not have it now. So much for disproving natural medicine.
Thanks.

anonymous 4, Waterville, ME
April 11, 2009 6:06pm

That's some great testimonials.
I'll bet no one blew $100,000,000.00 to be sure the products got results through worthless clinical trials.
Your body must be quite younger with all that stuff out of there.

BTW anonymous, I've spent much time in and around Waterville.
A great place.
I remember I use to go to a healthfood store called "The Depot"
Great place.
It was an old train depot if I remember correctly.
Relatives of mine use to own the Morse Memorials on the main road there, close to Oakland.

Don, L.A.
April 11, 2009 7:31pm

Do you want to know why testimonials do not count as science. Because they cannot be independently verified by others.

Besides, you can dismiss them very easily if they do not conform to your preconceived notions. I'll show you with this true account from a friend of mine:

"My mom used to do a lot of detox, namely a brand of colon cleanser. She would use it all the time. She claimed that it was helping her.

"Anyway one day she started clutching her chest in pain. She thought it was gas caused by blockage and used her colon cleanser to get her blockage cleared up. And she felt better. So she thought it was just the blockage that caused the gas.

"From then on, she would use her colon cleanser whenever she had gas. And every time she would get better. Until the last one.

"We rushed her to the hospital soon after that. She had damaged heart so badly that she now needs a pacemaker. It turns out that in women, a heart attack is expressed as severe gas.

"Had my mom just gone to see the doctor the first time and not use her cleanser, she would not have been in this mess. The colon cleanser caused her heart problems AFAIC."

That is a testimonial saying why this stuff does not work. And I have hundreds just like it. If testimony is all I have to go on, then from my sample set, I have proof that it does not work.

If I had a scientific study to read, I can read it free from biases

John McGee, Imperial
April 13, 2009 7:15am

It just simply doesn't work.
Why would anyone think that it would.
Really nothing works unless there is scientific study to back it up.
Pure and simple.

Don, L.A.
April 13, 2009 8:39am

testimonials aren't science... however, thanks to your testimonial i can save 100 million on research and just not use metamucil to treat chest pain.

ed snow, Spring Hill, FL
April 15, 2009 1:22pm

Unfortunately, as long as it takes 3 months and $$$ to get an appointment to see the doc for 15 minutes to discuss "why do I feel so tired and sluggish?" - only to have the doc confirm that there is "nothing wrong with you" - people are going to try snakeoil for a cure. The insurance industry has destroyed the concept of going to your GP for help with preventative care issues. Doctors have 15 minutes to spend with you and you might as well be REALLY sick or they're not going to spend time or money digging for answers. This is why people turn to snakeoil salesmen like these detox products. It offers hope to people. Not that it's right, but I do see how people get suckered in by this stuff. In a perfect world, natural medicine and conventional medicine could be used side-by-side, and preventative care would include sound nutrition guidance, massage therapy, accupuncture, etc.

Aimee L, Boston, MA
April 29, 2009 8:30am

In the case of an emergency, you can call your doctor and get some help. The doctor will take time out of his busy day to do things like this. If you need a script, he will fill one out and you can pick it up and fill it out. In extreme cases, you can go to the hospital. I have done that a lot.

The doctor can help you out, but you need to call them and get some advice.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
May 02, 2009 9:24am

Don.

Your not a god that I know of are you? Then you wouldn't know if something worked or not for everyone on the planet. Quit thinking, it weakens the nation more than Obama already has. Before the advent of modern medicine and all of it's horror and glory both, people have been ingesting clay for millions of years. I wont pretend to say I know how it would work as a weight loss agent. But go blame the weight loss scammers who market it as such. Not the product for it's proven uses. Bentonite is amazing for me when it comes to food poisoning or potential stomach issues. it clears it up when any western med would fail miserably. I also have no doubt it does pull out toxins. Theres too much history of the stuff being beneficial and not just snake oil. Snake oil by and large was a phrase used in the 1800s and early 1900s for generic cure alls that were basically heavily alcohol based tonics that may or may not have contained herbal additives. basically just booze. But how many of you out there have no problem buying $8 drinks at your favorite trendy watering hole and making some guy rich who laughs at you. One thing we do know. Booze doesnt cleanse your colon. good luck.

Steve, chicago
May 02, 2009 1:45pm

Hmmmmm, very interesting read, some very good points and a good dose of humour. I think we have to take a bit of info and advice from everywhere, generalising in almost every form leaves holes.
But it did bring me back to reality a bit, I was fascinated with the idea of those foot pads!!
I will research it a bit more!
And maybe do a liver cleanse!!

Cheers

Emma Tucker, Cairns Australia
May 09, 2009 12:38am

I do know that those Kinoki foot pads are a huge scam, but as far as mucoid plaque goes...I am a believer!!
I haven't done a colon cleanse, but recently started a very vigorous workout program. The other day, I couldn't run because I felt really "bogged down". I drank a few glasses of the Target brand metamucil and felt better the next day.
***WARNING...GRAPHIC...READ WITH CAUTION***
Last night, I went to the bathroom
and as I wiped I saw what looked like those pictures (mucoid plaque) on the toilet paper. I did look in the toilet and there was about a 2 inch piece of what I think was mucoid plaque. I wanted to show my hubby but he was having no part of it. I poked around it with a q-tip, and it was like rubbery rope. I can't describe it, but parts of it looked just like what I saw on the internet.
I haven't take any colon cleansing pills...just the cheap metamucil.

Kim C., Manchester, NH
May 14, 2009 8:33am

I keep reading a strange logical fallacy here. Premise: Real medicine is unafordable. Conclusion: Fake medicine is therefore better than nothing.

But in fact fake medicine is not better than nothing it is equal to nothing. Why not save the money and maybe eventually afford real medicine, or at least a better quality of life?

chef, Hong Kong
May 16, 2009 2:42am

Kim,

So... you ate metamucil, in which the active ingredient is psyllium seed husks, which become mucilagenous when wet (with thanks to Wikipedia for the details...), which is the *same* thing they put in "colon cleansing pills" and you passed something mucilagenous and you are surprised??

O...kay.

;-)

Brenton, New Zealand
May 17, 2009 3:58pm

I recently had a colonoscopy. Now, if this rubbery mucoid plaque was gumming up my innards, don't you think it would have shown up? While some alternative therapies may be "harmless", what about those that are using these therapies to treat such life threatening diseases such as cancer or heart disease? My ex-father-in-law decided to partake of chelation therapy to cleanse his arteries, instead of traditional medicine. He was lucky to survive the heart attack, and subsequent quadruple by-pass.

Michael L, Squamish, Canada
May 18, 2009 12:14pm

I used to go to a Dr (now retired) who told me "Most of what ails people is in their heads,guts and livers." He told me to drink more water, turned out my aches etc were dehydration, and to eat some fibre daily (ie, fruit and vege), and to realise that just by being alive we make our own toxic by-products. My father, after eating cabbage springs to mind. Since then, somehow, I feel better. Yeah, I drink lemon and honey when I have a sore throat, cos it helps, and yeah I take a multi-vitamin daily, can't hurt as far as I know, but all this snake oil crap is really starting to give me the pip. Apparently, this 'detoxing' can also 'cure' autism and other mental disorders. Wow, herbal remedies can fix gene sequences! Whooda thunk? Well, not them.

Kelly, Saint John
May 20, 2009 4:53am

Let us please differentiate between being critical of the product itself and it's legitimate uses and those handful of marketers who sell the stuff with silly claims. Bentonite clay and psyllium both have legit medical uses and benefits to you. I personally don't buy the weight loss marketing part of selling it but I do know that bentonite can quite often get one over a case of food poisoning way better than any pepto bismal or similar 'traditional western' med found at the drug store. It is proven itself as a product that can remove harmful things from your digestive tract. Combined with psyllium it is more effective as it trasnports better. I would certainly be dubious of any claims of curing mental disorders or excess weight loss, but the stuff is a legitimate medicinal substance, like it or not. It's not some black and white thing you can dismiss as quackary or endorse as a cure all. it is neither.
the public in certain areas are so completely brainwashed by the notion that if it isn't a prescription med it is useless is just plain stupid. How many million people took Zithromax last year for a viral infection? How many millions took an SSRI without even needing one. I dare say the makers of Z-Packs and Lexapro are hardly crying about it and praising their marketing techniques which at times are often less moral than the idea of flying a plane into a building.

Steve, Chicago
May 22, 2009 5:03am

On the Detox foot baths myth

It basically comes down to the fact that it is not medically possible to detox through your feet as the skin is not directly involved in the detoxification process but rather through the process of sweating will your body push out whatever toxins are already deposited in the outer dermal layers only.

To relay and expand on an analogy; You would have to sweat continuously from your feet, day and night for over 200 days straight in order to detoxify as much as you would in one urination. So you see the marketing of the detox foot baths is one of this century’s medical fallacies, bordering of fraud and deception. But what is even more frightening is that many medical doctors are actually falling for it.

The only foot bath, or rather full body bath which is what it all started with, that actually works is the Q ENERGYspa®. This is the original invention from Australia in 1996. Furthermore, it has never only been about detoxification but rather an energy supplement for your body, giving your body the energy resources to heal itself and for that purpose the Q ENERGYspa® works extremely well.

For more information on this technology, check out the website www.QEnergySpa.com or email info@QtheExperience.com for more information.

Q The Experience Australia

Ivan Krell Serensen, Toowoomba, QLD Australia
May 24, 2009 5:03pm

Brenton,

I was surprised because I didn't take the "clay", or betonite, that supposedly mixed with psyllum, causes the "rubbery" poop. What came out of me wasn't necessarily mucilagenous...it was rubbery and did not break apart. I just took the metamucil, and believe me, I can tell the difference between a good ol' Metamucil poop and what I saw in the toilet. I have still been taking Metamucil 2-3 times a day, and nothing like what I saw before has come out since a day after I posted. It happened over the course of a few days, and I have to say, I do feel so much better and my cravings for sweets has greatly diminished.
I really don't know what to say or what to tell you to make you believe me. If it was just from the psyllum, it would have been more gelatinous, and it was not gelationious at all. It was rubbery.
I am not selling anything, so there is really no reason I should care if you believe me or not. I am not crediting just the metamucil either...like I said, I started a very stenous workout regimine which I believe has a lot to do with my body getting rid of the nastiness.
A few years ago, I did get a colonic, and nothing like that came out. Maybe it wasn't from the colon, but maybe from the small intestines???? I don't know...I just know what I saw, and it looked just like the stuff on the internet.

Kim, NH
May 26, 2009 10:42am

Kim, your testimony is certainly believable. The reason is because UNBIASED medical doctors have ALREADY documented mucoid plaque coming out of people who have not taken ANY psyllium nor bentonite. In 1899, Byron Robinsona, M.D. reported what he described as “leathery” mucous masses shaped like “membranes” or “ropes,” which he chemically determined to be "mucin." (1) In 1932, Bastedo, M.D. writes in JAMA: “When one sees the dirty gray, brown or blackish sheets, strings and rolled up wormlike masses of tough mucus with a rotten or dead-fish odor that are obtained by colon irrigations, one does not wonder that these patients feel ill and that they obtain relief and show improvement as the result of the irrigation.” (2) In 1989, a M.D. took a full color photograph of a long, rubbery, shiny, blackish-brown “bizarre stool” removed from a young women.(3)

Furthermore, there is not one study on psyllium describing it coming out like mucoid plaque.

This truly demonstrates that modern MDs and their worshipers lack critical thinking skills. Fashionably, wearing an Einstein T-shirt does not make one a scientific thinker.

1. Robinsona, Byron, M.D. "The Abdominal Brain and Automatic Visceral Ganglia". 1899 pages 210-213. http://books.google.com

2. Bastedo, WA. “Colonic irrigations: their administration, therapeutic application and dangers”. JAMA (1932) v98 p736.

3. Pounder, Allison, and Dhillon. “Color Atlas of the Digestive System” 1989 page 155. http://www.worldcat.org/

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 27, 2009 2:16pm

I find that a simple three day juice fast with a daily enema and lots of rest will bring me back to normal after a few months of living in the fast lane.

It's cheap and works effectively without the need to buy a lot complicated equipment. I do remember seeing those pictures of weird black rubber stools at those websites years ago. Amazing.

Dennis Francis
http://tinyurl.com/npzy2t

Dennis Francis, Sacramento, CA
June 09, 2009 10:33am

Joe I have noticed that even your most recent ref is 20 years old, and the others are 77 years and 110 years old. Can you provide anything within the last 10 years?

Claire, Melbourne, Australia
July 12, 2009 9:30pm

The comments on this episode have been most enjoyable and informative. It's taken me days to get through them all!

I appreciate being able to read all aspects of this discussion, both the extremes and the more balanced perspectives. For me these comments are more real than much else that I find in the media.

I am on day 7 of the psyllium & bentonite cleanse... no surprises yet. I have no opinion yet whether or not this works or not but I thought it was worth a try. The main thing I wanted to be reasonably sure of was that this product would not cause me physical harm after that it's up to my own experience to judge whether it does anything for me or if i'll just chalk it up to yet another experiment.

Michelle, Kingston, Ontario, Canada
July 13, 2009 1:49pm

Claire, I have noticed that you are missing the point. Brian Dunning, in this blog, says that "in all of medical history" no medical doctor has "ever" recorded mucoid plaque snakes from patients NOT taking any cleansing pill. Let me repeat that again: IN ALL OF MEDICAL HISTORY. Those three sources I gave totally contradict what Brian Dunning says. Instead of acknowledging this, you chose to nit-pick about how anything older than 10 years is outdated. I found those sources haphazardly while surfing the web. There are probably more.

I am curious to see if Brian Dunning is man enough to admit that he was wrong about that. Are you listening Brian?

As an added treat, google this phrase: "Early super- ficial zones of infarction may be covered by a mucoid plaque". You will see that this phrase is from a conventional pathology journal studying Crohn's disease. Interestingly, people with Crohn's disease have reported mucoid plaque coming out without taking and cleansing products:
http://tinyurl.com/nel2ys

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
July 20, 2009 11:03pm

Thanks for the very informative article. I always wondered how the foot pads "worked". The bowel movement picture on DrNatura I could have done without :-).

The funny thing is that Google Ads put a DrNatura ad on the page when I read it. Oops.

Art, Florida
July 27, 2009 7:49am

that's gross. funny how they have pics of their face next to pics of their crap. If anything like that ever happened to me, I'd grab my crap and head to my doctor's. thanks for the info.

Loise, Guam
July 29, 2009 11:18am

Get all the facts before you try to turn people away from therapies that may restore their health and wellbeing.

Sandra LaMorgese, New Jersey
July 30, 2009 11:52am

It's arguable that he did Sandra. If you have an example of a safe and effective detox treatment feel free to tell us what it is and the evidence that it works, otherwise your post amounts to nothing more than "oh yeah". In case you haven't read the relevant posts elsewhere on this (on other) site(s) and/or you aren't familiar with the scientific method, anecdotes and/or personal experiences aren't evidence.

Adrian, Brisbane, Australia
July 30, 2009 12:23pm

Joseph Ferguson,

You have been totally brainwashed by Big Pharma and Big Medicine. You remind me of all the sheeple in some members of my family and in-laws and their friends.

Don Sutter is spot on!!

Ever heard of a liver-gallbladder cleanse? Or a parasite cleanse, a cell cleanse, blood cleanse etc.

Most people don't know but there is an order to follow. You must first do a colon cleanse, then a parasite cleanse, kidney , liver-gallbladder and blood cleanse.

Doctors are not necessarily the problem, it's the system... Big Pharma, Big Medicine and the FDA. The FDA is not protecting the public from harm. It is protecting the pharmaceutical companies from effective competition.

Peter, Glendale
August 09, 2009 9:14am

Why are there so many ads on your site for colon cleansing, "new energy" technology, etc.? Seems antithetical.

Sheldon W. Helms, San Ramon, CA
August 10, 2009 2:19pm

Brian would have no say in this matter. The advertisers are only here due to the prevalence of keywords. ie cleansing, detox, energy etc. Perhaps you should support Brian via paypal if this concerns you

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour Plain, Australia.
August 10, 2009 2:55pm

Re: You have been totally brainwashed by Big Pharma and Big Medicine

Brian, why aren't you using your massive bribes from your corporate masters to pay for this website, dedicated as it is to preventing people from achieving their spiritual oneness?

As Tim Minchin said: Alternative Medicine is medicine that has either not been proven to work or been proven not to work. Do you know what they call Alternative Medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine!

Let me state again, already mentioned by Adrian (tip o' the hat), ANECDOTES ARE NOT EVIDENCE OF EFFICACY! (AANEOE)

GW Crawford, Toronto, ON
August 11, 2009 8:45am

Dear Marius vanderLubbe,

The answer to my question isn't to PAY MONEY to the man. That was a cheap shot.

It seems to be that anyone who runs a web site where he wants to dissuade people from using certain products shouldn't allow those products to be advertised on his site. I don't know what experience you have with web sites, but I have a few, and it's COMPLETELY within my control whether I allow such adverts.

Sheldon W. Helms, San Ramon, CA
August 19, 2009 5:40pm

Well, Sheldon W. Helms, I suggest that you get in touch with Brian, as the issue seems to be causing you some measure of discomfiture.

Did you notice the disclaimer above the offending advertisements?
Allow me to reproduce it for you.

"Skeptoid is not responsible for the content of the ads below. Supporters help reduce the need for them."

Well done on having control over adverts in your "experience".

Marius vanderLubbe., Nullabour Plain, Australia.
August 20, 2009 12:41am

Thanks Brian for all your excellent work to educate and enlighten the public. Your podcasts are a welcome change from the usual nonsense filling the Internet's series of tubes.

Critical Thinker, Atlanta, GA
August 24, 2009 8:19pm

Thanks for this great informative article. A little common sense will go a long way, and this saved me some money. xD

Jeffrey, Lake Geneva, WI
August 29, 2009 5:54am

My goodness "Marius vanderLubbe." Have you always been a completely sarcastic ass, or is it something you have to work on?

Nice critical thinking, by the way. When someone introduces a professional opinion into the mix, it always serves the greater good to be a smart ass rather than debating like an adult. See, I can be sarcastic, too.

Sheldon Helms, San Ramon, CA
August 30, 2009 5:04pm

Wow, thanks for this great info. Keep up the good work sir! God bless you for enlightening us about those myths.

Carl, Philippines
September 06, 2009 12:08am

Thanks for the creating the awareness. Well-laid-out!

Brian, what do you recommend for detoxification, if there is even the need for such thing at all?

Innocent Tetteh, Atlanta, GA
September 08, 2009 10:04am

I am guessing Brian would recommend the dual treatment of having a liver and at least one working kidney Two would be better though, for detoxification.

Claire, Melbourne, Australia
September 09, 2009 10:32pm

Hi,

I just wanted to stipulate some points regarding a recent cleanse I am on, from Robert Ferguson 6 day detox drop. I am using Psyllium husks, Aloe Vera juice, Org. Apple juice. Next step is Chlorophyll in water, and two cascara sagrada. It is day 4 of my clease. I have been seeing what you call made up name of mucoid plaque since day two. I have used Dr. Natura 2 times with much slower results. However I am on a stricker diet of fruit and protien smoothies...strawberries, bananas, blueberries, promegranate juice, carrots juice. This stuff is cleaning house...no matter what you may call it. It's being set free...no matter the name and I am so glad. Understand there was no bentonite clay from day one.

Desiree, Chicago, IL
September 26, 2009 11:41pm

I really have to fault your argument because it is filled with GENERALIZATION! Sure some "naturpaths" rip people off by claiming they can rid toxin in non practical or misleading ways, but to say no one has any need for detoxification is ridiculous. There are just as many bad doctors as bad naturpaths. It's a typical bad argument citing a few points for your cause and claiming everyone with that stance is wrong. People are usually wrong everywhere and doing some research and learning a little bit can take you further than just proving your own point.

I suggest you do a master cleanse (cayenne, maple syrup and water) and let me know why your still pooping in day 8 or 9.

Tyler, Denver
September 27, 2009 4:32pm

For the record, there is a body cleansing elixir that HAS been scientifically proven to detoxify your body!
It's also highly inexpensive! And its available all over the world.

What is this miraculous medicine?, you ask.

Water - drink 3-4 pints a day and you will help clean your liver, your kidneys and your digestive system.

MarkinCA, San Ramon, CA
September 28, 2009 9:59am

I suggest you do a water detox for two days and see if it works. It seems you provide "evidence" without any experience. Maybe you would rather not gather the experience incase it means you have to shatter your current skeptical position.

Mahreen Ferdous, London UK
September 29, 2009 7:54am

Is MarkinCA seriously suggesting people take on the dangerous practice of dihydrogen monoxide therapy?

That's just the kind of solution 'they' would suggest.

Big Pharma won't tell you this, but dihydrogen monoxide can kill you any number of ways - and yet the medical establishment CONTINUES to recommend its use.

Grant, Tulsa, OK
September 30, 2009 4:14am

lots of water, healthy diet, sufficient exercise=best detox.

john, yonkers, ny
October 05, 2009 12:27pm

The reason you dont poop right is because you are dehydrated and eat crappy foods. Drink more water and try eating some fresh vegtables for a while... it works

mike, st. louis
October 10, 2009 1:56am

Is Mahreen serious? Brian's evidence is a result of research, not experience. Maybe you would rather not investigate these detox methods in case it shatters your fanciful view on life.

Very well written article.

I heard the dihydrogen monoxide detox program was a big hit down at Guantanamo Bay. They had some special method that used a board though...

Dan, Fairfax, VA
October 30, 2009 6:20pm

Brian, I suggest you let us make the choice to buy and spend whatever the price to real results.
Anything that is condoned or not by the FDA should be taken with a pinch of salt. They play both sides and certainly DO NOT have your and my health as a priority. Like any cleanse or detox it has benefits and drawbacks. The drawbacks are do your research, spend the money and follow thru'. The benefits are more energy at cellular level, clearer thinking and no more doctor visits.
Brian, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, not intellectual thinking.

Trevor, Johannesburg
November 02, 2009 11:41am

For over five years I had some spots on my forearms and face. Several Dermatologists told me that they were caused by Eczema. They gave me various topical ointments for this problem. None worked.

On a visit to Jamaica, a friend took me to a clinic that offered the detox foot bath. I was very skeptical, however, the treatment was cheap and there were plenty people there so I decided to give it a try.

After a few days, I noticed an improvement in the condition of my forearm and face. After two additional visits, the spots were gone.

Incidentally, after the third visit, the "Doctor" told me that there is no need for a fourth, based on the amount of toxin that was expelled.

This is my first hand experience. Let us compare it with Brian's speculation

Paul S, Atlanta
November 09, 2009 1:14pm

Paul S: Just because you took a foot bath doesn't mean that's what made your eczema clear up. Eczema usually goes away or into remission all by itself.

Steve, Virginia
November 09, 2009 2:31pm

Steve.

Isn't it strange that it did not go away for five years, even with conventional treatment.

Paul S, Atlanta
November 11, 2009 12:53pm

Paul

Not really, the "detoxification" may have worked as a powerful placebo effect or it may have just been a coincidence. There is no evidence (other than anecdotal) that detoxification treatments actually work whereas there is lots of evidence that eczema can come and go.

Andrew, Calgary, Alberta
November 14, 2009 1:39pm

"Exactly where are you running into these doctors that hand out drugs with no recommendations of lifestyle change. I know several doctors that recommend diet change and lifestyle change before even thinking about giving out prescriptions.
I will admit that drugs are prescribed too often, but many times it isn't the doctors fault. People are beginning to assume that there is a magic pill for anything that is wrong with them.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
February 17, 2008 10:27am
____________

"They don't run in to those doctors, because someone like that would never hang on to their licence.

Alcari, the Netherlands
February 17, 2008 2:17pm

____________________

To address these comments, my husband saw his new Dr, who is well established in our area, and gave him a list of the vitamins/supplements he was taking and was told "I'm not big on supplements" He also has drug posters covering the walls in his exam rooms. My husband's bloodwork showed moderately high cholesterol, & the Dr said nothing, and wrote him a prescription for a statin. NOT wanting drugs, he questioned what diet & exercise would do to help, and was told "Nothing, it's heredity." So he said to the Dr, "So I can eat whatever I want and it won't do anything?" The Dr said, "That's not what I said." But that is exactly what he said, because if a good diet won't help cholesterol, a bad diet shouldn't hurt it. Needless to say, the doctor didn't like his "attitude" and we're looking for a new Dr.

Barbara, Southern California
November 16, 2009 8:36am

If someone has a genetic predisposition for high cholesterol, eating less fat etc won't help much because the body will just manufacture it from what you have eaten. If you eat more fat etc, you're dumping extra and the body won't be able to effectively clear it out, so you'll build up extra cholesterol on top of your body's baseline levels.

Joe, Colorado
November 16, 2009 2:37pm

(this is not a personal attack, just pointing out one of the reasons those health myths are perpetrated)

Barbara,
I know your type of reasoning, and it's absurd.

The doctor told you that better diet won't help your husband's high cholesterol, and that exercise won't either, and it is quite clear you didn't want his opinion.

You went there with your high and mighty attitude and ten minute google research "diagnosed" your husband with whatever stuff you found on the internet, and just wanted the doctor to confirm it and tell your husband to eat better and have exercise.

The doctor that actually got to a medical school for god knows how many years told you the truth, which angered you. You started to think of a way to portray it's his fault for not lying to you, so you invented words he didn't say to justify your decision and now you're searching for another doctor.

Good luck with your search, I'm sure you'll find someone who will tell you what you want to hear. I so much hope that helps your husband.

Bono, Bulgaria
November 16, 2009 6:03pm

Joe from Colorado, if eating junk causes "extra cholesterol on top of your body's baseline levels" which "the body won't be able to effectively clear" , how do you then conclude that eating less junk won't at least help? This is disturbed reasoning that does not make any sense.

Bono, you think Barbara invented words Mr. M.D. didn't say? Lets here it directly from The American Council on Science and Health , which consists of a board of 350 physicians.(1) They say that we should be teaching "fat kids" that they can eat as many "cheeseburgers and fries" as they want thanks to the first law of thermodynamics. (2) That wonderful board of 350 physicians also agrees that fast food restaurants should be serving "burgers, fries, and shakes" rather than "fruits, vegetables, and water". (3)

Barbara and hubby, run far away from that medical doctor as you can. I assure you that Mr. M.D. does not care about your health and simply wants to victimize you.

1.
http://www.acsh.org/about/

2. http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.375/news_detail.asp

3.
http://www.acsh.org/healthissues/newsID.1325/healthissue_detail.asp

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
November 18, 2009 1:19pm

I was simply answering 2 posts that don't believe there are actually doctors out there who do not recommend lifestyle change at least in conjunction with meds.

My husband went to this new Dr, not me. When he sees someone new he always gives a list of everything he takes, prescription or otherwise. The list contained both. The Dr only commented on the supplements.

The diagnosis was not the first one to show an elevated cholesterol. It had been 258 at one point, and when my husband was exercising and lost some weight it went down to 242 in about 2 months.

I didn't have any attitude about the Dr. He is the same one that took care of my son when he had a collapsed lung, so I thought it was great when my husband was able to switched to him.

Some doctors simply are not openminded about supplementation, and so he stated that. But to tell my husband that diet and exercise would make no difference doesn't make sense. We already knew it would.

Also how did he conclude that it is it heredity? My mother-in-law is 92 and in good health, and my husband lost his father when he was 9.

My husband is the one who told me what the doctor said. He wouldn't make that up. He was very surprised by it. And it was he who said he wanted another doctor. I simply agree with him.

Barbara, Southern California
November 19, 2009 4:13pm

What "research" has Brian provided? Has he been on a detox? Has he at least sited others who have done research or experiments in this space? He has only made statements. And made fun of the whole thing. It is funny and I find it an interesting and fun read but in terms of evidence,if this is evidence then I the world is flat because I just made that statement.

Mahreen Ferdous, London UK
November 24, 2009 10:17am

Thanks for clearing up the confusion on mucoid plaque. Even a wikipedia search will reveal it has never been proven by a doctor.

Lisa, Dallas, TX
November 30, 2009 10:35pm

This website deals in generalities from the blind distance, from what I can determine -- like flying a commercial jet from the ground. Would you agree to be a passenger on such a flight, technology aside?

kev, Cleveland
December 12, 2009 10:04am

Recently here in South Africa there has been a disturbing upsurge in these so called alternative medical products. They make ridiculous claims and mislead our people and they are dangerous and they do not come come cheap. They infuriate me!

Tshenolo, South Africa
December 13, 2009 11:02pm

Tons of "statements" w/out any evidence cited. I'm going to follow you're own advice and not believe anything you've written until you provide some solid proof and evidence to back up all your "claims."

Just another airbag shooting his mouth off. Not ANY better than health practitioners making outlandish claims with nothing to back it up.

Both sides of this debate need to check themselves, get their facts straight, provided solid evidence, and then maybe there will be some consensus. Until then it's just like a massive "he said/she said" situation.

Rose, CA
December 16, 2009 12:49pm

"Both sides of this debate need to check themselves, get their facts straight, provided solid evidence, and then maybe there will be some consensus. Until then it's just like a massive "he said/she said" situation."

Actually, the burden rests on the proponents of the "alternative" to prove their claims. That's how real science works.

Lewayne, Near Des Moines
December 17, 2009 8:06pm

Bruce N. Ames writes that 99% of all toxins we are exposed to come from mother nature, that our liver is fully capable of detoxing those chemicals provided we keep it healthy by eating lots of vegetables (full of phenol compounds converted to glutathione), complete protein with the sulphur containing amino acids and a high potency multivitamin/mineral to drive the Kreb's cycle and repair mutant DNA. Incidentally, he also writes that organic produce is more toxic than synthetically protected produce.

Thanks for your explanation of why detox is a fraud based on paranoia.

John, Oklahoma City
December 21, 2009 5:54am

I agree that we are exposed to more toxic material in a sheer volume from mother nature, but disagree that it is more dangerous. Our body has evolved to eliminate natural toxins. Many of the new toxins that we produce are potentially 100's of times more dangerous than those that occur 'naturally'. Furthermore, natural ones don't tend to build up in the environment (some exceptions of course) and quickly degrade.

If you eat 5kg of lettuce leaves which naturally have some compounds designed to deter insects from destroying the leaves. You will be fine. Drink 50ml of anti-freeze, you'll probably die. Of course it's not designed for consumption, but some of these compounds will build up in the earth invariably. Of course, detox programs don't really work, I am not defending them.

The best way to detox is to eat a natural diet, drink plenty of water, simple. Actually a topic for discussion that not many people are comfortable with, which helps detoxify the body is the use of the squat posture for defecation. It helps more quickly and completely evacuate stagnant material from the intestines that may leak some toxins. This posture has been shown in a few studies to evacuate more material from the bowels. I use this, and it helps me feel better less bloated. But don't fall for the over-hype, some say it almost completely eliminates colon cancer, this just isn't true. It may help slightly reduce your odds though.

Chadzuka, Aussie
December 24, 2009 3:00pm

The best "detox" is fasting. I do it once every year for 2 weeks and always feel amazing afterwards.

I have come across many people who argue that fasting has no benefits. Coincidentally, none of them have ever tried it for themselves.

Nate, Dallas
December 29, 2009 11:11am

All this article is a bunch is misinformed bs as is the rest of the website, instead of looking at the point you debate other unimportant stuff.

mucoid plaque does exist and you are probably full of it, mostly due to the fact that you believe pesticides herbicides fungicides filled food is more worth your cash than organic.

see mucoid plaque here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh1RiWvXELk&feature=PlayList&p=CD66A4A8C069E2EF&index=7&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL also notice improvement ppl made on following what could CERTAINLY be called a detox protocol

DUH

Max, Montreal
January 10, 2010 4:20pm

"There is no legally sold colon cleansing equipment approved for general well being or detoxification" - this isn't correct there are many home colonic kits. I think that at the end of the day the real problems lie in the crap foods we now have. Eating organic has almost become impossible or a huge chore. We wouldn't need these debates if we focused on the real problem.

Jayne, Australia
January 15, 2010 11:28pm

Occasional use of particular intestinal cleansing 'modalities', from my personal use, have clearly been beneficial to me, - using the same sensibilities I apply to other things in life.

Only with judicious use on occasion, that's it. Like a 'tonic', so to speak, like medicine, but not destructive to the body. Not snake oil or a hoax. Some things may not work for you, some may.

I understand there are the skeptics, they just don't know.

It seems true that if people have unvital excess in the body, it's not just fat.

The lymph system is another issue related to all this, and, mucoid matter that is 'unvital' mucoid matter. I realize the body vitally needs 'healthy n proper' mucous too.

Scott, San Diego
January 27, 2010 8:19am

@Nate: Fasting is also part of atleast eight major lifestyles like Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and many variations of Christianity. I think it's not too far fetched to say that this is partly becaus fasting was found to be beneficial to health.

To make maters worse for "formal" medicine, there are conditions that it does not regonised as possible. In Finland, according to common knowledge, tapeworm in humans is nowadays extremely rare. Unfortunately, and according to studies, this is not the case, but the common supposition is still followed by many licensed medical pratitioners who refuse to even test for tapeworm even if the symptoms match. Even doctors are just humans.

Jani, Finland
January 30, 2010 7:51am

Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and christianity are not 'lifestyles', they are religions...

Lauren Kash, Baltimore, MD
January 31, 2010 7:14pm

Thanks for this topic. I get so aggravated when I hear friends start telling me about their cleansing programs!

If you look at the history of medicine you see a how treatments go in and out of fashion, which really reflects more the societal concerns of the time than any actual disease process. The detox fad is certainly one of these and has a history going back to religious puritanism and the idea that the body and earthly life is inherently impure and must be somehow transcended in order to be 'saved,' i.e. healed.

Here's an excellent summary by herbalist Susun Weed: "Healing in the Heroic tradition focuses on cleansing. According to this tradition, disease arises when toxins (dirt, filth, anger, negativity) accumulate. When we are bad, when we eat the wrong food, think the wrong thought, commit a sin, we sicken and the healer is the savior, offering purification, punishment, and redemption."

http://www.byregion.net/articles-healers/Traditions_of_Healing.html

Julia, Baltimore, MD
February 01, 2010 5:03am

Jani,

It actually IS far-fetched to suggest that fasting has persisted due to some hypothetical health benefit. Fasting is just one of MANY religious practices that have endured over the years. Almost none of these are explicitly for health benefit, and only slightly fewer can even be said to IMPLY a health benefit. Those same religions have prescriptions against shellfish, against the mixing of textiles, against bestiality, against the worshipping of other gods. Would it be "not too far-fetched" to claim some kind of health benefit from those too?

Ian Cromwell, Vancouver, BC, Canada
February 02, 2010 5:44pm

How is it, that in millions of years of evolution where "Detoxifying" was not necessary, have we decided in the past 10 years that it is essential?

Our ancestors never needed to stick a tube up their arse and flush out with some ground up twigs and plants...and neither do we.

Andrew Kelly, London, UK
February 05, 2010 3:30am

I'm actually shocked by this article and the responses. I agree with how ridiculous some of the detoxification programs can be but to say that detox is unnecessary or it's something new and hip. I say you should educate yourself before posting any responses.

Ani, Los Angeles, CA
February 06, 2010 10:06pm

The single most important the body does is to concentrate on digesting the available food as it was scarce. The body has not kept up the pace of change with our habits. We eat too often and in large quantities. Hence the body is always trying to digest and store but has no time to eliminate. These by products become toxins and get absorbed into the body causing all health issues as I understand. Imagine fecal matter stuck in the lower intestines and the blood goes and starts absorbing the toxins from it. My brother is a doctor and when he was a student, he did many autopsies on cadavars and used to tell the amount of fecal matter stuck in the lower intestines. He used to drink hot water first thing in the morning to avoid such a situation. However there are people who try to make a buck from other's unfortunate condition but the science of detoxification, even if it means drinking hot water, cannot be discounted in my opinion.
Regards

Gandhi, Vancouver
February 07, 2010 1:56pm

Gandhi, your views on the matter are in direct opposition to modern medicine's understanding of the human body. There is no 'extra stuff' in the lower intestines. Of course there will be fecal matter there when someone dies because, spoiler alert, digestion stops when a person dies.

Hot water is brought back to body temperature LONG before it gets to the lower intestines. Yes, water itself will help IF you are dehydrated, but that is a different matter.

Your body doesn't do one thing at a time. It doesn't need extra 'time' to process toxins (any idea what those toxins are, specifically?).

Not all forms of detoxification are scams, but all forms that are not scams are performed by trained medical personal for specific reasons, like dialysis.

Don't eat lead paint, wear a breath mask when painting and such, don't drink contaminated water or fish. If you believe you have an issue with toxins, speak to your doctor. I'm sure there is a test to confirm it.

Brandon, Falconer NY
February 07, 2010 8:09pm

Why bother taking care of your body with diet & exercise, when you can eat crap & lay around the house?

Then when you get sick & tired & fat, you just find a quack remedy & you are good to go again.

Thanks again for being the voice of reason.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people who want to believe this stuff have their minds made up & that's that.

Linda James, Salt Spring Island
February 11, 2010 7:19am

Interesting article, but extremely biased from the get go.

Yes, there are a lot of garbage "so-called" remedies out there, but to suggest in such simplistic terms that simply going to your doctor and listening only to them is equally ignorant.

"Doctors" are trained to "cure" ailments through the use of medications. Doctors, in general, do not focus on the broader picture of overall health and lifestyle, especially if one has no insurance.

The real key to good health, proper diagnosis of ailments, and remedies is self education.

Doctors are no smarter than we are.

Always "read" between the lines, whether it is a doctor or an "alternative" solution.

WHAT, if anything, are they SELLING?

And they are almost always selling something. Even doctors!

Chris, New England
February 11, 2010 9:15am

yeah because someone whose spent 8-10 years getting his doctorate in college in no way more educated than you, right Chris? He doesn't know anything more than you about the intestinal or vascular system, or whats really in dead bodies after all those dissections and exams right?
What an extremely disrespectful and idiotic comment.

I agree that we should seek knowledge ourselves and trust our intuition, but often our sources are unlegit- which makes everything so much harder for gaining truth. Doctors are taught nationally or internationally reviewed and accepted material I know some doctors are taught to treat and not cure; to keep patients dependent on pharmaceuticals rather than cure they cheaply. However, there are many honest doctors out there. Ensure your sources are reliable, think logically and use wisdom- do you really think there's a miracle cleanser out there that will rid you of all your ailments and cause you to loose fat by only taking the crap? And they sell it to you for 80$ cause they really want you to be healthier? Newsflash- herbs don't cost 80$ a bottle.

Mia, orlando
February 19, 2010 10:29am

Brian,

Dr. Natura products saved my life. Seriously. I think you are dead wrong about what you said about Dr. Natura, which helps a lot of people. I suffered from chronic candida for 10 years, I tried everything known to man. My life was beyond miserable. It was not until I started using the Dr. Natura Colonix program that I got rid of the problem. I have been taking two cups of their fiber every day for the last 5 years and finally have my life back.

Matt S, Fair Oaks
March 03, 2010 4:45pm

If people only use alt-med therapies because they can't afford health insurance is, at best, a very poor choice. Anecdote: All through my 20's I did not have health insurance and tried to help myself out with various herbal concoctions--to no end. When I got strep throat and an ear infection I was all too happy to spend $125 at the ER, and they let me pay it off in monthly payments with no interest. guess what? the antibiotics they gave me cured me.... Just go to the doctor. You won't be wasting what little money you have.

Shannon, Dallas
March 03, 2010 6:57pm

I guess you have never had something that no one can give you answers for. Try going to the doctor for years and they tell you nothing is wrong. I have started to feel better with the help of homeopathic medicine and dextoxifying with products from blessed herbs. And wow all my symptons are almost gone. Regular doctors did nothing for me except give me medicine that made me worse. These things help alot of people try opening your eyes.

Tracy Zimmerman, Lake Orion, Michigan
March 08, 2010 3:54pm

Tracy/Brian,

This is a common error in logic that perpetuates the profit gain of these alternative medicines. Your improved health coming after administration of these products or services does not imply causation. I'm glad you're feeling better, but the issue is giving these products credit for it when there may be no connection between you taking them and feeling better after. One just happened to occur before the other. More likely, it was just your body's time for your body to be better. Modern medicine is really a marvel and the methods and medications are tested exhaustively to the point their efficacy is indisputable. It's not a "one or the other" situation where alternative methods should be given the same credence as modern medicine. If X happens (feel better), it's not always because of Y (alternative medicine), and that is where it's important to be skeptical. We know that antibiotics work. We know pain killers work. We know why they work. "Detoxification" is one of those buzzwords that really gets people going. No one can explain what it really means, but the alternative medicine industry has sure cashed in by convincing people they are somehow suffering from some sort of toxicity that isn't affecting the rest of us.

Tom Wester, San Angelo, TX
March 13, 2010 4:24pm

I tried blessed herbs colon cleansing before. I gues that I was scammed too. I do believe in detoxing the body though what would you recommend as a real alternative?

JTM, Richmond, VA.
March 20, 2010 7:33am

Brian Dunning,
I really wish you'd look into the mainstream medicine and find the skepticism in that. Or is that too easy, since there are tons of medications that kill people, whereas taking supplements does not. Even treatments like chemotherapy don't work as well as they should - because sometimes the specific chemo for that cancer is not effective, but not legal to use a different type of chemo. In other countries there is a thing called a chemosensitivity test, that determines what chemo will KILL the cancer. Not done here..not legal here..why?

Melissa, NY
March 21, 2010 8:32pm

Actually taking the wrong suppliments or too much can kill you. Children who ingest too many multivitamins can die of an iron overdose. Too much vitamin A or D can kill you as it is stored in the fat, and is not water soluble. Many of these "alternative, natural" medications are poorly regulated and poorly manufactured. Some can cause drug reactions with either a prescription med or a different "natural" med. I put bowel cleansing right up there with aromatherapy and iridology in effectiveness. All are a great way to make a lot of money for nothing if you're selling and a great way to lose money if you're not.

Marsha, Niagara Falls
March 22, 2010 12:59am

JTM:

What I would recommend is simply a healthy diet, with plenty of vegetables and fruit, the amount of protein recommended by dieticians, and such like. The human body has evolved a very efficient system for removal of toxins. Most of the organs in your lower torso are dedicated to that purpose. They do a very good job at it.

There is one type of toxin that the human body fails to adequately rid itself of, and those are called heavy metals. Things such as lead, mercury, and other such things that in some forms accumulate within the body. One way to avoid such toxins is to avoid eating other predator animals, such as shark meat. But, if you are suffering from heavy metal poisoning, you will be extremely unwell, and doctors will be able to work out what is wrong.

Modern medicine has a method of treatment to deal with heavy metal poisoning, but it is a dangerous procedure that should only be undertaken when a diagnosis has been confirmed. Some alt med people are offering such treatments to people based on nothing more than vague feelings of unwellness; a practice which involves far, far more risk than benefit.

Myk Dowling, Canberra, Australia
March 22, 2010 1:56am

I believe that the best "detox", as partially stated in the article, is water. As BD stated, the liver filters out the "toxins" and sends them through the kidneys to be expelled through urine. It only stands to reason that fluids (i.e. water) would aid and/or expedite the process.

Douglas Gilkinson, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
March 23, 2010 8:36pm

Is anyone familiar with "Zeolite"? Does it work at all or have any merit?

David M. Allard, Redondo Beach, CA
April 01, 2010 10:09pm

It is interesting how these people say you have to detox your liver. The funny thing is that detoxing is what your liver does! It can handle a LOT of toxins and, with water, i.e. plain old H2O, it sweeps you clean.
Ditto for kidneys. It is what they do!
You do not need 'treatments' to make them work right, you need a balanced diet and plenty of water.
Not 'harmonically balanced' or 'ionically stabilized' water. Tap water works just fine

GW Crawford, Toronto, ON
April 06, 2010 7:55am

ignorant is all i can say about this article. find some sketchy material and then assume thats a detox. toxins are all around us, in the materials in everything in your home, in the foods you drink and eat whether its an alleged healthy diet or not. the liver and other organs do become overrun. some heavy metals actually impede the chelation process so they do need to be cleansed. yes, 100,000 years ago when you lived a completely natural life and the only poison was the smoke from your fire your body probably handled everything just fine. either way, its your choice, for profit medicine that is proven to be deceptive and in bed w/ FDA or natural treatments for your body. don't be naive about your choice or listen to people w/ closed minds like this site.

ryan mansell, tamp
April 09, 2010 6:54am

hey brian it's great to see you are encouraging people to pierce the veil on medical issues which may or may not be under much scrutiny by the people turning to them - {though i think your choice of targets here so far is pretty weak seeing as they're all basically quackish to the extreme - tell me the ogopogo is not on your todo list) still i've got to wonder (presuming you haven't already and i just can't find it here) when are you going to turn those almighty powers of observation to somebody that really deserves it like the american medical association; or politicians or common cancer treatments? it's the average persons perception of this stuff that could really use some shaking up- not just picking on a couple of sidebar ninnies that don't hurt anyone but themselves really. and hey quantum physics... if you're so smart let's throw some of that in there too!!! imagination is more important than knowledge says einstein! anyone who doesn't have just a little bit of magic in there heart is living with their eyes closed.

david jacquest, salt spring island
April 27, 2010 3:16pm

Not personally a fan of fasting for colon health. Recently I was in hospital for several days following surgery. I fasted, all right! Nil By Mouth for three days and clear liquids only for another day after that. Far from feeling any marvellous health benefits, I was utterly miserable.

It took several days, eating my usual diet (admittedly quite high in grains, water, fruits and veg), and some assistance from prescribed laxatives, to get my digestive system back to normal.

It felt GREAT to 're-tox'!

Obviously I missed out on the placebo benefits of a fast/bowel cleanse. What a pity.

As it is, I can guarantee that from my own humble experience (sample size: 1) I value my bowel and colon most in their natural 'uncleansed' state. There is no way I would like to mess around with that particular bodily function again, unless I absolutely have to. In which case I will go to my trusty MD.

Anybody can have a bad experience with an MD, by the way. Doctors are humans and they have their own specialties and biases, and can make mistakes. My advice, rather than dismiss the entire medical system, is simply to find another doctor you trust and have a good dialogue with.

Leanne, Canberra, Australia
May 06, 2010 11:34pm

1. Not all who practice alternative medicine are quacks. Naturopaths (ND)are certified by a similar process that MD's are. A legit ND has gone through a rigorous undergraduate program, plus 4-5 years of graduate school where they also have the same sort of education (classrooms and clinicals). They are required to sit for the same exam that a general practice MD would to secure a medical license. IN ADDITION, to western therapies they learn other health practices that support the body's natural tendency for healing.
2. There are therapies in allopathic medicine (such as aspirin's main ingredient - salicin - found in willow bark - has been used since the time of hippocrates) that rely on direct precedents in herbal or natural health. Many western medicines are derived from more natural sources -- tumeric is another example. this is why drug companies seek to patent the chemical formulas of plants.
3. In the case of 'detox' it is irresponsible to throw out the idea that a LEGITIMATE ND (one who is properly licensed) may have an insight into therapies, that used in CONJUNCTION WITH allopathic medicine will help to support the body's natural cleansing process.
4. The reason why natural medicine has such a bad rap is because people claim unbelievable effects, others misuse/overuse MEDICINE without the advice of a physician and DIE, and the rest are too unwilling to realize that a pill isn't the answer, although, here in america we want the quick fix, and dr's know it

Analisa, California
May 10, 2010 10:18am

Point 1 is false. Of course they're quacks, they don't have an ounce of evidence.

Point 2: Of course we get medicine from natural sources. It's just too hard to synthesize it on our own. Anyway, medical science continues to refine medication, to make it work better. Naturopathy does not improve.

Point 3: Detox is, of course, bunk.

Point 4: We don't want a quick fix, we want an actual fix.

Your post, Analisa, assumes that a legitimate natural doctor exists. It also assumes that naturopathy has some sort of precedent for being right. It's a cult mentality. Don't buy into it.

Joseph Bozeman, Moore, OK
May 11, 2010 9:00am

Those who say that natural medicine is "bunk" have no idea what they're talking about.

They're just jealous because they don't feel as good as we do.

I detox for 3 days every month (which includes colon irrigation), and I feel amazingly full of vitality, and light as a butterfly.

And I have, on occasion, passed colon plaque. So, yes, it DOES exist. And it's not from any bentonite or other "detox formula." It's from a lack of have fibre.

By the way, I don't spend any money on any supplements or detox programs. Everything I need is in my kitchen!

So basically... don't knock it until you've tried it. You have no idea how good you could feel.

D., Toronto
May 15, 2010 10:06pm

I am on the 2nd day of a 3 day colon cleanse (www.3daycleanse.com) and things are moving well. I have been fascinated with the "mucoid plaque" that has already been removed from my large intestine after only 1 day.

I was curious to find out more about its makeup and build up and in the process i have come across a great deal of skepticism, including this site. I am still a believer in the concept but having a hard time finding any scientific findings/evidence that prove its existence. I have been wanting to see its build up in the "average" person online but can only find squeeky clean colons. I was hoping that someone may have some scientific resources of this build up and what its made up of. Does anyone know of any studies that have been conducted that would have that information documented either pro or con?

Thanks for you time.
In Health,

Shawn Hadley, Denver, CO
May 17, 2010 12:42pm

Shawn Hadley, these resources should help you out:

In chapter 3 of his book titled "Cleanse & Purify Thyself Book 2" (not book 1) Richard Anderson, ND points out numerous CONVENTIONAL sources that appear to describe and illustrate mucoid plaque.

Although the full book version of chapter 3 is significantly bigger and better, an abridged sneak preview version of chapter 3 can be found here: http://cleanse.net/mucoidplaque.aspx

There is a YouTube video showing mucoid plaque INSIDE of people right here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKoqi3_00AM

Do they look like squeeky clean colons to you?

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 18, 2010 9:10pm

WWThose who say that natural medicine is "bunk" have no idea what they're talking about.

They're just jealous because they don't feel as good as we do.""

A ridiculous statement. If this was true, I would simply jump over to natural medicine. Why on earth would I stick with modern science if I believe alternative treatments were superior?

""I detox for 3 days every month (which includes colon irrigation), and I feel amazingly full of vitality, and light as a butterfly.

And I have, on occasion, passed colon plaque. So, yes, it DOES exist. And it's not from any bentonite or other "detox formula." It's from a lack of have fibre.""

Okay, fine, then show us a case of someone passing colon plaque without first having gone through a detox treatment.

""So basically... don't knock it until you've tried it. You have no idea how good you could feel.""

We're not discussing brands of ice cream here. Whether or not medicine works is a question that can be tested empirically. If research shows a treatment doesn't work, it doesn't work, and there's no reason for me to try it myself.

Øyvind, Norway
May 21, 2010 9:10am

I'm reminded of a comic on an old prof's door. It had two gun slingers in a shoot-out at noon. One said "Well, I know lead in bullets is not bioavailable, as per so-and-so, 18XX" (paraphrasing). The other said "Ah, but you forget Erp et al., 18XX!"

This relates to this discussion. I KNOW a bullet will harm, and possibly kill, me. I don't need to try it myself--that's why we reference previous studies. Similarly, I don't need to try "natural" remedies, because other people have studied them and concluded that they don't work. If I find a flaw in the study, maybe I'll consider my own (if I were an MD, that is). Otherwise, there's no point. It's a waist of time, effort, and resources, and presents a huge risk with little possibility for gain.

Gregory, Alabama
May 21, 2010 1:06pm

Oyvind, you say: "show us a case of someone passing colon plaque without first having gone through a detox treatment."

I will show you three cases.

In 1899, Byron Robinsona, M.D. reported what he described as “leathery” mucous masses shaped like “membranes” or “ropes,” which he chemically determined to be "mucin," being passed by patients. (1) In 1932, Bastedo, M.D. writes in JAMA: “When one sees the dirty gray, brown or blackish sheets, strings and rolled up wormlike masses of tough mucus with a rotten or dead-fish odor that are obtained by colon irrigations, one does not wonder that these patients feel ill and that they obtain relief and show improvement as the result of the irrigation.” (2) In 1989, a M.D. took a full color photograph of a long, rubbery, shiny, blackish-brown “bizarre stool” removed from a young women. (3)

In none of these above cases were any of the subjects taking any detox agents. In fact, psyllium and bentonite were not even used until sometime after 1935 when Victor Earl Irons first pioneered them for detoxing. (4)

1. Robinsona, Byron, M.D. "The Abdominal Brain and Automatic Visceral Ganglia". 1899 pages 210-213. http://books.google.com

2. Bastedo, WA. “Colonic irrigations: their administration, therapeutic application and dangers”. JAMA (1932) v98 p736.

3. Pounder, Allison, and Dhillon. “Color Atlas of the Digestive System” 1989 page 155. www.worldcat.org

4. www.springreen.com/aboutus_founder.html

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 22, 2010 7:39am

'Joe Shmoe' is likely the same person who keeps advancing these links on the Wikipedia talk page on the subject and is almost banned because of the rules being broken by let's say 'him'.

If the anonymous name isn't enough to make one question the reliability of the comment, the last link labeled 4. should confirm the very good likelihood of biased information.

Brandon, Falconer
May 22, 2010 6:43pm

LOL. Look everybody. This so-called critical thinker is actually what critical thinkers call "attacking the person rather than attacking the argument."

This obviously means I won the argument.

You see, people like Brandon and Brian Dunning are what are called "pseudo-scientific skeptics" - frauds masquerading as critical thinkers.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 24, 2010 10:30am

The only links that support your claim are the one from 1899 and the one linking to a site SELLING THE FRAUDULENT PRODUCT. The other two are well understood medical problems which are NOT 'mucoid plaque'.

Your claim falls apart on its own when looked into, so I simply pointed out the bloody obvious reasons to be skeptical from the get go.

Call me whatever you like, medical science doesn't care. Reality doesn't change because you dance around proclaiming yourself to be the 'winner'.

Brandon, Falconer
May 24, 2010 1:49pm

Ad homonym is only a fallacy when two criteria are met:

1)The argument relies on the ad homonym (ie, "You smell funny, and your research is faulty" is a poorly phrased argument, but not invalid)

2)The argument isn't warranted (ie, "You have a fraud conviction, therefore we shouldn't believe you" is not a bad argument).

Seems to me Brandon is merely pointing out that you have a history of presenting false and/or erronious data, Joe. Sorry, but that is a perfectly valid concern to raise (it's why scientists are pretty much obsessed with their reputations).

I'd also like to point out that the "detox" concept relies on overturning a great deal of biology, not just modern scientific medicine. Until you can provide a well-documented (meaning, peer-reviewed) mechanism by which detox works, you've got nothing but random datapoints. I'm sure someone, somewhere, ate enough bentonite to produce some result similar to mucoid plaque--the stuff isn't exactly uncommon.

Gregory, Alabama
May 24, 2010 3:11pm

Thanks for saying that link 1 and 4 combined support my claim. Why the heck then are you saying that my "claim falls apart."? This contradiction proves that attacking alternatives has become nothing but an hysterical autonomic response for you.

As for the other links, you claim that they are "well understood medical problems." Yet link 3 (which I have in my hand) actually says "the pathophysiology of this syndrome is POORLY UNDERSTOOD." and identifies the specimen as only a "particularly bizarre stool." How insightful.

Your claim that I "have a history of presenting false and/or erronious data" is another fabrication. Libeling with barrages of baseless accusations are the tools your trade. The idea is that people will believe it because people are saying it. That is why pseudo-doctors like you rely on Wikipedia rather than scientific journals where hysterical mob rule is your idea of peer review.

P.S. Your bizarre ad homonym analysis is an example of how you pseudo-skeptics dazzle people with your labyrinth of logical fallacies. He clearly said "Your comment is unreliable BECAUSE you smell funny" not "You smell funny AND your comment is unreliable" Furthermore, my comments were verifiable facts not anecdotes that depend on any sort of reputation thus your ad homonym analysis number 2 does not apply.

What a joke.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 24, 2010 10:04pm

No, I said we should be skeptical right off the bat, not that you're wrong because of it.

As far as 'well understood', I meant explainable by other medical explinations, not well understood by the link itself. If I said I didn't know what a flower was, and cited my saying that I didn't know what a flower was, is that good evidence that it's a rose from the moon? No. OTHER people know what flower it is. In the same way the bizarre stool isn't an example of mucoid plaque. That a guy in the 1890's couldn't explain something isn't good evidence that it's mucoid plaque either. He didn't know what it was. The last link has a clearly invested commercial interest in the claim, and I'm not going to bother explaining why it should be discounted.

I speculated that you're the same person as the wiki talk pages. That might be irresponsible of me, but that is the only other place I found advancing those exact same sources.

Brandon, Falconer
May 25, 2010 10:53am

"Furthermore, my comments were verifiable facts not anecdotes that depend on any sort of reputation thus your ad homonym analysis number 2 does not apply."

It does. Because "verifiable facts" are not 100% guaranteed to be true. That's the reason we demand reproducibility in science--ANYONE can run the same experiment and get the same answer. If you have a history of lying, odds are I'll run the experiment just to make sure you're actually telling the truth (or wait until someone else does it). Brandon said that you have a history of making false claims, and therefore we should be skeptical of any claim you make. That is a reasonable argument, in that it attempts to assess your credibility, which many will rely on when they read what you write. "I don't believe you because you have a history of lying" is valid; "You're wrong because you smell funny" is not.

If you don't like it, demonstrate the error in the statement.

I'll note that you call my analysis bizarre, without actually critiquing it beyond "It doesn't apply to me!" Either you accept it (in which case you don't find it odd), or you reject it (in which case you're arguing an inconsistent point).

Gregory, Alabama
May 25, 2010 11:59am

I can prove to everyone here you are lying or clueless. You said that guy in the 1890's "didn't know what it was." He DID know (and prove) what it was. Read it:

"The mucous masses are white, grayish white, or a color due to the mixing of mucus and feces, yellowish brown. . .The mucous masses may be transparent like slime, or opaque like fibrin, of a grayish white, or a dirty color with pigment in it. Sometimes the masses consist of large, wide and thick leathery-like membranes. . .Chemical examination reveals mucin, or mucin-like material, as the chief constituent. This may be considered as definitely established, as it is confirmed. . .In the sigmoid the membranes could be torn from the reddened mucosa without loss of substance. . .The microscope demonstrated the mucous masses in the lower colon to consist of mucin, not fibrin. "

You are lying when you say other people have other proven explanations as to what the specimen in link 3 or any other link is.

The fact that Victor Earl Irons first pioneered psyllium and bentonite for detox sometime after 1935 is not a contentious claim that is disputed by ANYBODY AT ALL.

"The error in the statement" is your suggestion that I performed these experiments. You must be drunk.

Your bizarre comments and constant attempts at character assassination indicates you are not able to compete on an intellectual level.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 25, 2010 1:24pm

Passages such as, "Autopisies are so rare on the subjects dying of secretion-neurosis of the colon that no pathological basis is yet definitely established," seem to show that no, he didn't know what he had. Knowing that it is mucin, and trying to figure out why, isn't good evidence of mucoid plaque AS DESCRIBED BY DETOX COMPANIES. Him knowing it was mostly mucin doesn't means he knew what it was. I'm mostly water, that doesn't mean from that you can tell I'm human.

If you thought that people wouldn't actually read and understand your links, especially to the one of a blood clot, you're mistaken.

Brandon, Falconer
May 25, 2010 6:50pm

"Detox companies" describe mucoid plaque specimens as sometimes leathery-like pigmented mucus being chiefly composed of mucin. Claiming that the link is not "good evidence" of mucoid plaque specimens is stupid at best.

You appear to be leading people astray from the original discussion started with the skeptic Øyvind who thought he had a clever way to create doubt by proposing that there is not "a case of someone passing colon plaque without first having gone through a detox treatment." Those three conventional sources I gave prove otherwise. Confusing people with logical circles does not change this fact.

You claim that people can "read" and understand that my links, in actually, describe blood clots. O.k., lets "read" the links. Link 1 says "I have examined quite a number and have never observed fibrin" and "The microscope demonstrated the mucous masses in the lower colon to consist of mucin, not fibrin" and "Chemical examination reveals mucin" as the "chief constituent" and "This may be considered as definitely established" and "as it is confirmed by. . .,a sufficient number of investigators to settle the question." Do you even know what "fibrin" is?! It is the chief component of blood clots!!!!!! Look it up. The other two links do not describe or even remotely suggest that they are blood clots. This definitely proves to everyone that can "read" that either you, a medical doctor, cannot comprehend medical literature or are a manipulative liar.

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 26, 2010 2:57am

If these movements from people who have taken the kitty litter pill were really mucin based mucoid plaque, it would be trivially easy to test. You wouldn't need obscure isolated cases if this stuff is in most people's bowels. They would be common in autopsies. That they are not tested is because they would be shown to be mucin covered clay, and the detox scam artists don't want that. They'd have to make up some other lie about how the system works.

I wasn't talking about your first link in regards to fibrin.

Go on telling far out lies to feed your pockets, I'm done. But just know that people aren't nearly as stupid as you think they are and I'll be laughing the day you get sued for making false advertising claims.

Brandon, Falconer
May 26, 2010 8:08am

"The fact that Victor Earl Irons first pioneered psyllium and bentonite for detox sometime after 1935 is not a contentious claim that is disputed by ANYBODY AT ALL."

This is irrelevant to the truth or falsehood of the statement. It could be that you simply haven't found a rebutle yet (not an insult to you--the academic literature isn't nearly as orderly as one would hope). It could be that it got burried under a see of other discoveries and no one paid attention to it. It could be that no one cared enough to dispute it (Mr. Dunning has provided very good reasons for why this could be the acse).

And as I said before, you'll have to demonstrate an entirely new mode of operation for the large intestines before I'll accept mucoid plaque as a problem. Simply put, the large intestines push stuff out of you (among other things)--if they don't, you have a serious medical problem. So there's no plaque left (or very little). And even if there was, it's in an excratory organ, and not likely to go anywhere else. So any toxins (which are never defined) would remain there until expelled.

Gregory, Alabama
May 26, 2010 8:40am

Proving that they are "mucin covered clay" will not disprove mucoid plaque theory. Common sense will tell anyone that if psyllium and/or bentonite helps sweep mucin out, as the proponents say, it will likely be attached to it. I have already proven with those three links that mucin does not need any help looking EXACTLY like mucoid plaque stools. Thank you for demonstrating to everyone here the sloppy science that one will expect from a corrupt medical system eager to disprove a healing system that competes with their livelihood.

Doctors I found on the internet have ALSO specifically claimed toxins are "never defined." That is a blatant lie. In "Review of Medical Physiology" 7th edition on page 375 it says "potentially toxic substances as histamine and tyramine are formed in the colon by bacteria." Literature on autointoxication and candida have long implicated numerous SPECIFIC chemicals given off by these microorganisms. Proving they are problematic is one complicated matter. But when you and doctors repeatedly claim they are "never defined" this proves to everyone here that you and doctors have no intention of engaging in rational discourse about this topic.

Furthermore, refusing to broaden the definition of a toxin as a substance that is problematic is why you ignore the fact that "Scanning Microscopy" Vol. 5 No. 4 1991 page 1040 says that mucin itself "should impair digestion and absorption of macro- and micronutrients, as well as of medications.”

Joe Shmoe, Portland, Maine
May 26, 2010 12:57pm

"Common sense will tell anyone that if psyllium and/or bentonite helps sweep mucin out, as the proponents say, it will likely be attached to it. "

And anyone familiar with bentonite can tell you that this mineral expands like crazy once it becomes wet. Compression and coatings can keep it from expanding until you want it to--for example, if you're filling a geoprobe point, or making a cast of someone's guts.

"Doctors I found on the internet"

We can stop reading that paragraph there.

Gregory, Alabama
May 26, 2010 2:04pm

I am in first year ND school and we are following a rigorous curriculum of human dissection, pathology, embryology, histology, neurophysiology, neuroanatomy(with dissection), and many more classes so that we can pass the basic science boards that all ND's from accredited schools must pass before they can move to the clinical phase of the curriculum. It is the hardest thing I have ever done. I don't think it is the legitamate licensed ND's from accredited schools who make false claims. Unfortunately there are only five schools in the US currently that offer this degree and many other less scientific ways to get a ND degree that will not mean anything when Naturopathic Medicine is restored to its rightful place alongside allopathic medicine. I think that if the AMA would stop monopolizing the medicine in this country we can regulate it better. P.S. they do teach us about evidence based practice. Please don't think that Naturopathic Medicine has nothing to offer. They do teach us about Phase I and II of liver detoxification pathways. We get our share of medical and nutritional biochemistry with an eye towards the enzymatic pathways of the human body and the action by which foods, pharmaceuticals and other supplements effect or are effected by those pathways. We do have a much more philisophical division from allopathic medicine but it mostly is due to our recognition of the dangers of pharmaceuticals and the importance of true concervative care and common sense.

concerned, lombard il
June 01, 2010 11:18pm

Can I heartily recommend Ben Goldacres "Bad Science" book as one of the best sceptical discussions on this subject? One of his articles is on the further reading list, and his blog is found easily if you google BadScience

Tom H, Kent, UK
August 19, 2010 9:55am