Mercury, Autism, and Chelation: A Recipe for Risk

From the british press relating to the moost recent podcast. Hopefully this will be more widely reported.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2127479,00.html

Sir Francis, Sydney, Australia
July 16, 2007 3:30am

Wakefield merely asked for independent reviews arising from multiple jabs, which seemed a fair enough request. He is now pursuing his trials outside of the uk and hopefully one day *real* scientists can actually give a verdict and not uk government quangos or maverick entrepeneurs.

Shame this level of skepticism about the medical profession didn't exist in the seventies - Spina bifida being a testimony to the level of misery achieved by Glaxo's expertise in the past. I feel confident this podcast would have nipped that one in the bud.

Sounds like Skeptoid.com is willing to offers paid-up guarantees that we are all safe now and all skepticism should be reserved for activists, thanks Brian... I feel so safe now. Yawn.

ptah, London
July 16, 2007 4:58am

Often Mr. Dunning's podcasts smack of condescension directed toward those who get sucked in by or support the false claims of quack cures. I was happy that Brian reined in his tone of condescension for this episode because very few people can understand what a parent has to cope with when they start down the road of caring for an autistic child. In the face of an incomprehensible and devastating illness, these poor baffled parents end up willing to try anything to save their children. I'm not defending their choices, but human's have a very tough time with the idea that there is absolutely nothing they can do to save their child from a life of confusion, fear, anger & isolation.

Mike, Kingston
July 16, 2007 1:14pm

As a parent of an autistic child, I am glad that there is another voice of reason in what is often a confusing issue. I do not for a moment believe that vaccinations contributed to my son's autism. There are so many factors pointing to a hereditary cause. Nor do think that Mr. Dunning was being condescending toward parents who do choose alternative therapies for their children - but toward the charlatans and quacks that prey on these families, knowing full well they're "treatment" is bogus. I've listened to several of these podcasts and the only harsh words I have ever heard, are for THOSE therapies and pushers of, that are proven to be ineffective by the medical community. It angers me, that there are those out there, who would prey on my love for my child...offering only empty promises, or even worse harm.

Shawn3k, Central NY
July 20, 2007 7:18am

interesting podcast, thanks. I'm not convinced that it's useful to call chelation and other related autism/mercury quackery "a politically correct fad", though. If anything, the idea that people on the autistic spectrum are somehow 'toxic', and are a suitable target for all kinds of dangerous quack treatments, is offensively politically incorrect.

ptah, the podcast didn't mention Wakefield or MMR: for good reason. MMR has never contained mercury or thimerosal (this is a live vaccine, so adding thimerosal would render it ineffective).

Jon, UK
July 21, 2007 8:00am

Brian -

The following request is made under the paradigm that the purpose of Skeptoid is to inform its audience on particular topics, as opposed to simply being a soapbox for opinions or to promote a biased agenda (like so much of today's mainstream media does):

Given that your audience is primarily composed of skeptics, I assume that you're constantly bombarded with requests for the sources of your information in each episode for them to double-check. If so, would you be so kind to cite your factual statements (e.g. "Vaccinations save more lives worldwide than any other medical advance in history") and provide a bibliography of sources with each episode? Please correct me if I'm wrong so that I can start citing you directly, but I find it unlikely that you are a published scientific expert on autism, vaccinations, and mercury, not to mention conducting interviews with the likes of Gary Swanson.

On the other hand, if I'm alone in this request, maybe you need to do an episode on the importance of being skeptical of even skeptics...

Todd Barton, Crawfordsville, IN
July 23, 2007 1:50pm

Thanks again for a wonderful show. In Sweden, an organization has started a campaign which says there's a link between vaccinations and shaken baby syndrome. sad. it's an organization of lawyers fighting for parents rights.

Anna Forss
anna.forss@gmail.com
Stockholm, Sweden

anna forss, Stockholm
July 30, 2007 10:22am

Brian Dunning,
I Just read through this, and am really curious, what do you think of Dr. Mercola?
check out what he has to say about all these topics if you haven't already, I guess you would probably dismiss him as a quack though.
How about Dr. Richard Fischer?
these men as well as many others have spent decades trying to bring to light the dangers and the thousands of cases of harm caused by mercury.

Andrew, Fairfax VA
August 14, 2007 8:38am

There is no doubt that mercury, in large enough doses really only found in industrial accidents, is harmful.

But that's not what we're talking about here. Methylmercury (the kind that stays in the body) was never an ingredient in thimerosal, and thimerosal has not been an ingredient in childhood vaccinations for more than a decade. You're basing your concerns on a chain where every single link is broken.

Brian Dunning, Laguna Niguel, CA
September 27, 2007 9:34am

Has anyone read the Discover Magazine article about autism "Autism: It's Not Just In The Head" printed in March of this year? It mentions two specific cases of autistic kids that are now "neurotypical" after treatments that included chelation. After briefly outlining the two childrens stories, the article then calls them "fascinating anecdotes". The article also touches on the work of a "highly unconventional molecular biologist and naturopath" Amy Yasko that seems to be as controversial as chelation.
The article does not actually advocate these therapies, but if I had an autistic child, I'd be interested in these treatments that appear to offer a cure that traditional mecicine cannot.

Beth, Fairfax, VA
November 17, 2007 6:24am

whoever wrote this is an Idiot, any freshman med student could tell you that the most deadly toxic poison injected directly into the blood is simply ludacrious, and this Guy sounds like your typical drug pushing, clueless MD, otherwise known as MEDICAL DUPER. I know from experience & research(my son) that mercury does in fact cause mental problems and can and does cause any and every disease known to man, especially cancer & Heart disease(the 2 biggest killers today)this is your typical blind so called doctor which this guy does not have even a clue as to the meaning.
David Galvin CNC/CH

David G, Columbus, Ohio
December 11, 2007 5:13pm

I guess whatever mail order diploma mill gave you your CNC/CH "certifications" doesn't have a very rigorous English program. Grammar: Look into it.

Brian Dunning, Laguna Niguel, CA
December 11, 2007 6:01pm

David G, "mercury does in fact cause mental problems and can and does cause any and every disease known to man..."

Are you actually suggesting that mercury can cause strep throat, malaria, and HIV? Did you completely miss out on that little discovery known as the Germ Theory of Disease? Next time you think about going on a caps filled rant about something you obviously know little about, please restrain yourself and instead do a little research on the topic first.

PS www.mercurykillseverythingonearth.com is not a valid cite.

Steve Loeffelholz, Iowa City, IA
December 12, 2007 8:35am

I just wanted to point out that autistic children may not have the ability to expel ethylmercury before it causes damage due to a genetic defect. So while chelation therapy still doesn't work, the ethylmercury may be the culprit, but I'm not saying it is.

Bob the aspie, Maryland
December 31, 2007 12:27pm

I personality think that, when it comes to autism spectrum disorders and chelation therapy being used to treat it, Senator Kennedy, who is right on most issues, might as well be Ann Coulter ranting about how liberals are "godless." AS for David G., have you ever heard of two things called "The Germ Theory of Disease" and the "Hippocratic Oath?" the latter has a line in it that says something along the lines of "to only improve life." Do you honestly think that someone who has taken that oath would be deliberately promoting mass poisonings?

Kevin the Aspergan, B'ville, NY
February 23, 2008 1:35pm

Saying that mercury in vaccines causes autism is like saying that table salt (NaCL)must be banned because it has chlorine in it.

In other words, take a high-school chemistry class before you start talking with authority about things you don't understand. Itis not 'mercury' in vaccines; it is ethylmercury- completely different. That's why saying mercury is in vaccines is like saying chlorine is in salt.

eric thorn, Seoul, ROK
June 22, 2008 5:07am

Wow. Loved this post. I am the mom of an autistic child, and after spending a lot of the last six years researching autism and therapies, I still can't believe that parents will consider chelation. By the way, my son was not my first child, and I have four other children, all neuro-typical. I can say with a very high level of certainty that my son did not behave typically even as an infant and has been exposed to nothing that his siblings weren't exposed to. All of my children are vaccinated. My pediatrician has a family that doesn't vaccinate, and two of their children are autistic. Figure that one out. It's a genetic roll of the dice. Let's all pray for the souls of the quacks who prey upon desperate parents.

Jude Keck, Texas
August 19, 2008 9:39am

If there were such a things as redemption or souls, these fiends would be beyond either.

Marius vanderlubbe, Nullabour plain, Australia.
August 20, 2008 6:35pm

Hi Brian,

I was wondering if you had considered updating this episode to include a discussion of Jenny McCarthy's new book where she discusses other mums who have "cured their children of autism". If you're not aware her own child was misdiagnosed with autism and then after she put her child on a gluten-free/metal detox/new age etc diet and her son was miraculously cured.

Her first book about it was written after this article was posted. Just search "Jenny McCarthy" at Barnes Noble. My personal disgust climaxed with this:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/02/mccarthy.autsimtreatment/index.html

The casual lack of regard for scientific inquiry and blatant misinterpretation of statistics (what are the AIDS/cancer/diabetes rates in children given that they are overwhelmingly adult diseases) is pretty sickening when you consider the recent outbreaks of measles.

Paul, Osaka
September 26, 2008 5:02am

Hi Brian,
I just read Jenny McCarthys book; Mother Warriors....It totalLy made me think about not vaccinating my little girl with even the flu shot....She is delayed in her development, and I've decided to try a DAN doctor this week....It really is scary for parents when their child doesn't seem quit right!

Lisa, Minneapolis
October 13, 2008 2:44pm

What nobody wants to mention is that patents rule the medical profession and that unpatentable treatments do not get researched. No company will dole out millions for FDA approval when they can't recoup the research and development costs with a patentable "drug". All the science the medical profession professes is therefore suspect. You can't trust an industry to make you well when they profit more if you are sick. Doesn't common sense play a part in any of this ranting?

The medical profession should stick to crisis management which they do very well. But their bogus treatment of chronic diseases with drugs that relieve symptoms only instead of fixing the real problem is just as much of a rip off as alternative quacks who haven't gone to the proper schools to learn their profession.

There are quacks on both sides. If you are going to wait for FDA proven treatments by drug companies, then heaven help you if you end up with a serious chronic disease. You are likely to be strung along and put on drugs that will end up causing yet more problems.

There are many "alternative" methods in the forms of supplements and herbs that work and are safe for all sorts of things. Just a couple of examples are lysine to treat cold sores and raw garlic as an antibiotic. It costs almost nothing to try these to see for yourself. That's the best proof, the proof you can see with your own eyes. We don't often get independent studies, they are mostly designed to sell something.

Karen Barrow, Fort Myers FL
December 20, 2008 12:21pm

Now, I'm pissed. Not by Brian Dunning but because the European objective to eradicate measles from Europe will not be met. Instead, we have the spread the disease back till South America. And at the same time the Antroposofic organisation is still excluded from the quack laws in Sweden. I'm so upset so I'm starting a boycott against antroposofic products in Sweden. They sell foods and stuff go get people hooked on their beliefs here in Sweden. I've also posted a blog post on my blog to do what I can to increase knowledge on this. And there I of course refer to your podcast

http://painistemporaryfailurelastsforever.blogspot.com/2009/01/sad-sad-times-for-human-health-anti.html

anna Forss, Stockholm, Sweden
January 09, 2009 3:56am

I gratefully thank the above people for letting me know that reading things will give me a great level of expertise on matters.

I even acknowledge that a book written by a parent would be a wonderful informative source for the general set of diseases that are encompassed by the term Autism.

Could somebody recommend a book on climate change?

Henk van der Gaast, Sydney, Australia
February 15, 2009 8:09pm

Tim Flannery's book "The Weather Changers" is meant to be a good read.

He is biologist based at MacQuarie University in Sydney, so I think you can count on some local examples and flavour in the book (it is in the bookshelf, I just haven't read it yet!)

Brenton, New Zealand
February 15, 2009 9:19pm

Thank you, Karen from Fort Myers, spring home of the Red Sox!

Most vaccines cost about ten dollars. Not much money in that. Most medical research is done at (American) universities using private funds from endowments or public money. Its not exactly clear to me where all of this corporate money looking to stop cheap cures is coming from.

At least eating raw garlic doesn't hurt a person, it only means that your food lacks delicious roasted or sauteed garlic while salmonella ravages your body.

Alex, Iowa City
March 07, 2009 1:37am

Most vaccines cost about $10?

Where does that number come from?

Last time I went overseas, the vaccines I decided to get cost between $NZ65 and $NZ130. Mass screening vaccines are probably cheaper - given the volume is in the many millions of doses produced, but ten bucks still sounds low to me!

(about two minutes later)

Ok - I went to the CDC website. Most vaccines are a LOT more expensive than $10!

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/downloads/archived-vfc-price-list-files/2005-vac-pricelist-archive.pdf

Brenton, New Zealand
March 23, 2009 7:33pm

Gee, I guess all those increased cases of autism in the somali population in MN are just a statiscal anomaly. Couldn;t be genenetic>

georgetalbot, nc
April 01, 2009 6:04pm

It could be both. It could be neither. Is it possible that these are all misdiagnoses. Have you bothered to verify these tests?

I feel that you are implying that because it is affecting the Somalian population that means we should stop using it for everyone? No that is not how it works.

What is known is that there is nothing in the vaccine shot that is causing autism. There have been numerous studies that prove you wrong. If the data consistently proves you wrong, then you need to let go of this belief.

You are making a false correlation in this case. Autism shows up at about the same time a MMR shot is administered. That is it.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 07, 2009 5:45am

How much are they paying you to try to cover up all the mercury poisoning that the ada and pharm. companies have unleashed on us and our children, you and all your kind should be in jail. Mercury is the most toxic metal on the planet after radioactive metals, what sane person would put it in their childrens mouths and what kind of whackjob would put it in childrens vacinations. It's a goddamn crime. Quit trying to cover it up.

mike sark, fort wayne, in
April 13, 2009 2:42pm

mike sark,

I couldn't agree more!!

for those who don't know

read "The medical mafia'

But I already know whom Brian is working for!

Pindar, Holland
April 17, 2009 1:36pm

Well if the Skeptoid page is getting bribes to spread false information, can't this place be jazzed up? You know dancing babies, youtube links. Maybe one of those programs that can turn your picture into a cryptoid?

On a serious note, the people that should be in jail are the ones whom would deny a vaccination to a child based upon misinformation spread by those looking for a conspiracy. (And before I hear it, I know the government has lied in the past, I know that big corporations have been dishonest. The problem with you conspiracy theorists is YOU make it so easy for them to do it!)

Michael, Worcester
April 17, 2009 7:35pm

Michael,

You realy have done you research right?

So you must be aware that most of your thoughts are just brainwashed by the corporate owned media, universities etc?

I will also deny my child vaccination, because it would be criminal to give it to them!

In the past I have thought like you did, and I was one of the 'sheeple'

please wake up! It is time now!

Brian, and with him the super idiotic psychopath Randi are fucking you!

Ah well, you have to found out for yourself!

Pindar, jasmijn
April 17, 2009 9:46pm

On a serious note, the people that should be in jail are the ones whom would deny a vaccination to a child based upon misinformation spread by those looking for a conspiracy.

UNLESS it is correct! which it is!!

Booooooooooooooots

Pindar, Holland
April 24, 2009 4:12am

One thing I always notice about you conspiracy nuts is how you fling obscenities and insults without providing any logical rebuttal. The article does what you cannot do. Make sense. Explain why the rate of vaccine use has gone down and autism rates have remained steady. Explain why autism rates went up when vaccination levels were the same. Explain why autism is still prevalent even though thimerisol has not been used since 1997.

Greg, Maryland
May 06, 2009 9:25am

One thing I always notice about you conspiracy nuts is how you fling obscenities and insults without providing any logical rebuttal. The article does what you cannot do. Make sense. Explain why the rate of vaccine use has gone down and autism rates have remained steady. Explain why autism rates went up when vaccination levels were the same. Explain why autism is still prevalent even though thimerisol has not been used since 1997

Well, I love it!

anyway, you seem to believe the official line? No problem eh?




You realy don't get it

Pindar, austria
May 08, 2009 7:57am

Hi Greg

Vaccine use gone down? Wrong. They are at present in USA developing another lot of three vaccines for swine flu to be in use by the fall of 2009.

A few years ago they introduced vaccines for pregnant mums.

A few years before they banned one day vaccines. Not today one day vaccines are back.

Diarrhoea vaccine is fairly new.

All this means a steady upward increase in vaccines for babies and now even while in the womb.

The California Autism Study 1987 - 2007 shows autism rising from under 1 000 to 8 000 and today stands at 12 000 for the 4 to 9 age group in one of more than 50 USA states.

Vaccines do carry risks not only of neurological problems but of anaphylaxis up to and including death from repeat vaccines (Nobel Prize Winner Charles Richet)

Why can we wait a little longer before injecting people who havent a say in the process?

Alternatively why cant adults get all these vaccines they are happy to give to the infant that cant live on adult food let alone brain destroying toxins.Doctors and nurses REFUSE vaccines at a rate of more than half of them unless threatened with loss of their jobs.

And where are the double blind tests showing multiple vaccines are safer than single vaccines.

In France multiple vaccines are illegal and Hep B vaccines for children attract manslaughter charges against several vaccine makers.

France has an autism problem miniscule compared to England and USA.

Why? Why? Why?

Reread above if in doubt.

John Fryer, Paris France
May 11, 2009 7:48am

John,

Two things. There is some debate about the increase in autism. Some doctors are proposing that the increase is due to awareness. Second,
I hope this website can answer some of your questions:
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Preventable_Illnesses.html

Michael, Worcester
May 20, 2009 8:19pm

John,

4 Things:

1. Autism is a popular diagnosis right now, much like how ADD was popular in the 90's. That is probably an explanation of why diagnosis have gone up.

2. If you took a 15 minute search at google scholar, you will find links to published clinical trials on the effectiveness on multi vaccines.

3. I got my mmr vaccine when I turned 21. I just recently got a booster for it a week ago. Point is, this adult was able to get it whenever he felt like.

4. I am not going to reread things for clarity because it is not my place to. It is your place to make it clear from the start. If you cannot do that, then I should not waste my time reading it.

It is not up to the skeptic to debunk your claims. It is your place to prove your claims. You will not do that if you keep throwing stuff out there seeing what sticks.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
June 12, 2009 2:22pm

"One thing I always notice about you conspiracy nuts is how you fling obscenities and insults without providing any logical rebuttal. The article does what you cannot do. Make sense. Explain why the rate of vaccine use has gone down and autism rates have remained steady. Explain why autism rates went up when vaccination levels were the same. Explain why autism is still prevalent even though thimerisol has not been used since 1997."

Explain where you get your information from. Apparently only from the skeptoid. Making sense doesn't make truth. Thimerosal is still in use today in many vaccines, most notably the Fluzone flu vaccine from Sanofi Pasteur. It contains 25 micrograms of mercury per dose. Look it up:

http://tinyurl.com/n2z86t

The skeptoid's so called facts are unsubstantiated, the table from the FDA linked above will show you that many vaccines still contained mercury until well after the date he mentions. Indeed, many still contain thimerosal today. It is not a conspiracy theory that mercury is known neurotoxin, and even that at a nanomole level.

JBDuBois, Phoenix, AZ
June 28, 2009 10:38am

It is a conspiracy theory to insist on a conclusion that's in opposition to mountains of evidence. Dozens of studies performed over DECADES have shown no correlation, let alone an actual mechanism since the type of mercury (there are types of mercury - did you know that?) and it's properties are well known. Autism studies increasing show largely genetic causes and as our understanding on this subject grows, we are increasing able to detect Autism BEFORE some of the vaccinations claimed to cause it. And an undeniable fact is that thimerosal was removed from the MMR en mass, changing what MILLIONS of kids got in their vaccines and there was no corresponding drop in Autism.

Adrian, Brisbane, Australia
August 03, 2009 12:25pm

I am trying to locate the article cited in the podcast on mercury levels - Williams et al in 'Research in Autism Spectrum Disorders' in 2007. I have searched the journals web site (http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/709651/description#description) but can't find it. I also searched on PubMed but can't find it either.

Let me be clear, I am NOT a supporter of the theory that mercury caused autism, quit the contrary - I'm trying to find the article for my file on antivaccination nonsense. citation in error?

William Hay, MD, Omaha, NE
August 06, 2009 2:01pm

As a teenager in the 80's, the South African Govt told the world that it had withdrawn the last of its troups from Angola. My boyfriend was in Angola fighting for the SA Army until 13months after they were supposed to have all left.

The moral of this story...

Nothing is exactly as the authorities state it is and don't believe everything you read or hear...

Govt statements are generally bashed out in a committee prior to announcement and everyone knows that a committee usually delivers a solution that looks good but is frequently unworkable...
Or just in agreement with the chairman, however stupid or misinformed he/she is.

Basically, if Mums say their children were normal, had a vaccine and then were immediately normal, and the official statement denies it due to lack of scientific evidence - I believe the mums. they know their children the best and experience them daily.

Realist, Sydney
October 14, 2009 3:15am

Everyone interested in this topic should read "Autism's False Prophets" by Paul A. Offit, M.D., a well document analysis of this issue.

William Hay, MD, Omaha, NE
October 23, 2009 10:30am

"Realist" - nothing of what you write in any way suggests vaccinations cause autism. A reminder that the government hasn't always told the truth, and an appeal to emotion, are worthless as proof of anything.

I could just as easily turn it around and remind you by anecdote that there are lots of lying and mistaken mothers out there, and then state, using an appeal to emotion, that I rather trust the government.

Want me to believe vaccinations cause autism? Prove to me that vaccinations cause autism.

Safe-Keeper, Bergen, Norway
October 23, 2009 1:35pm

A site I think everyone should visit is www.brainguardmd.com. I went to Dr Andrew Moulden's lecture in Barrie this year, and the audience was in complete silence after his 2 hour lecture, showing that vaccines are not only causing autism,ADD, and learning delays, but Parkinsons, Alzeihmers and many cancers. The problem is so much the mercury,it's the aluminum in the shots that cause a slugging of the red blood cells and as a result creates many micro vascular strokes in the body. Anyways check out his site for a complete explaination of the damage caused by vaccines.

Michael McGean, Barrie, Ontario
January 02, 2010 6:30am

See I can't use UBER sarcasm as I did in February.. I'll come straight to my point so some nong doesn't recommend me anything I have any need of.

If you are really trying to get minimal expertise from a book, you are doomed to failure. It may be that the book is spot on, but you'll only absorb the bits you want to.

Clearly the autism rate increases may be due to a variety of reasons. The problem is that the protagonists on this page have got it wrong on a pharmaceutical by pharmaceutical, environmental or higher medical diagnosis

Until the antivacc crowd hit this with hard science instead of waiting for data to fall in their laps (that neither the protagonists or their supporters understand), they are going to look like a flock of fruit bats flying overhead under the continuous eye of a credulous media.

Yes I do blame the media as well. Every Kook gets a field day on the morning and after news shows. Have you quizzed the media about any scientific knowledge?

Any way, off to my Q-ray bath to soak off my positrons so I can face the fact that, most of us are suckers and will gladly pay for junk.
Freedom of choice is what you've got!

OMG thats a copper 7... wheres my q-ray pendant?

Henk van der Gaast, Sydney Australia
January 03, 2010 10:04am

I think if a person wants to be smart in regards to autism disorders, they would get checked out for mercury levels to see if they need to have them removed. Now it might be a good idea to see if there are safer methods than chelation therapy, If it is not an issue, than diet can be added to improve symptoms. From what I have read, genetics, and nutritional factors are both issues in autism. Before you go insulting people, and assuming that you know everything, you might want to be willing to learn new things. One day your poor attitude will bite you in the butt.

Cheryl, Mount Carmel, Pa
January 24, 2010 10:32pm

It's interesting how an urban legend like this one can become so popular and widespread so quickly. The first time I heard it was from a coworker whose baby was diagnosed with autism. He wholeheartedly believes (and still belives, I think) that it was caused by vaccination. He was so convinced, I was convinced. But this episode makes it quite clear that it can't be a causal relationship.

I wish newspapers would lay out the facts so clearly and succinctly.

Abby, Austin, TX
February 17, 2010 9:08pm

""I think if a person wants to be smart in regards to autism disorders, they would get checked out for mercury levels to see if they need to have them removed. ""

Why?

Øyvind, Norway
March 25, 2010 11:09am