The Bible Code: Enigmas for Dummies

I'm sure Newton did this sort of thing as a bit of fun to while-away the hours he spent thinking about intelligent stuff!

A good example above though of the "exception provides the rule!"

I saw Derren Brown on TV tonight giving various people from around the globe a "personal reading"...

They were all happy he'd been 70-99% correct, until they were shown that all the readings read the same way!

Good boy Derren!

Griff...

neil griffiths, Cardiff uk
June 05, 2007 4:14pm

When will the madness end? Is there no limit to the stupidity of these poor fools? I suggest we put the works of J.K Rowling under the merciless blowtorch of ELS. I bet that would reveal a cornucopia of revelations. Dr Seuss? Now my head is starting to spin.

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabor Plain, Australia
June 06, 2007 2:08am

What makes you think Drosnin's stupid? He has, after all, made lots of money from writing the first two books, and now he's about to do it again...

Martin, London
June 06, 2007 6:04am

Stupid is as stupid does,Martin. I must comfess I myself have been tempted to make millions of the ignorant by selling an outright falsehood ,so perhaps stupid is too light a descriptor for this individual. Evil, perhaps?

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabor Plain,Australia
June 06, 2007 5:48pm

It would be interesting to see a discussion of what ELS codes imply about the source material, especially as applied to the Bible.

Think about it. The purpose of a code is to transmit a message. The medium of transmission is not particularly important and is usually deliberately unintelligible -- in fact, it would seem to defeat the purpose of a code to have a medium which is just as meaningful as the encoded message.

Lowell, Knoxville, Tennessee
June 07, 2007 12:02am

Dr Brendan McKay of the Australian National University has thoroughly debunked the bible codes, showing that the words Drosnin and others are so thrilled to find in the bible appear at the exact frequency suggested by statistics as equivalent to chance. More at http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html.

Eran Segev, Sydney, Australia
June 07, 2007 4:44pm

Yes, Lowell, how I would love to agree 100% but unfortunately I'm with the codes being rubbish guys on this one; see Shakespeare for more codes! Not!

Mind you, that's not to imply the bible is any-the-more credible! gOD forbid!

Griff...

neil griffiths, Cardiff uk
June 08, 2007 11:58pm

You have got the way the bible code works all wrong. You say that the words appear in any direction. It doesn't work like bingo. There are an amount of letters between each letter. That's how it works. Second, you should not dismiss the possiblity of it being true. Alot of scientist do that and that would be the wrong thing for a scientist to do because then they would not be doing there job. How could something like this be impossible to you when half the stuff written in the bible is just as impossible sounding as the bible code. I belive in the bible and god and jesus. So how can a person not believe in aliens,ghost,ufos, and even bigfoot. Type in 2004 ufo fleet over new mexico. The case was dismissed in less than half a day. Even though everyone dismissed it as being theirs.

Joey, Traverse City, MI
July 14, 2007 6:41pm

Wow, Joey. Was that English? The only thing that was phrased well and sounded reasonable was, "How could something like this be impossible to you when half the stuff written in the bible is just as impossible sounding as the bible code." And, well, I don't actually have a good argument for that. It is true, the stuff in the Bible is definitely impossible...

Elaine Ellerton, Austin, TX
July 22, 2008 3:53pm

They're: They are (*they are* wrong)

Their: Possessive of they (*their* silly theory)

There: adverb (*there* is a dumb idea)

If you cannot master these three words and learn the differences, you should busy yourself with them instead of talking out your butt about things you cannot possibly comprehend.

Eric Thorn, Washington, D.C.
October 26, 2008 7:55pm

Well the bible code is malarky. If you look hard enough, they're numerous books that have supposed codes written in them. I bought the same code finder program that Dunning used and I found my name in the complete works of Shakespeare, as well as Marlowe, and within Atlas Shrugged. In fact inside Atlas Shruggged, my name was all over the place.

We only add significance to the Bible Code because it is the Bible part we add significance to. If it was called the Koran code or the Book of the Dead code, we would not give two shits about them.

By the way: "My son and step-daughter, they're going to their car over there."

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, ca
October 26, 2008 9:27pm

I'm thoroughly enjoying these articles! As I was raised in a cult though never accepted the preposterous brainwashing that was intended to be force-fed into me, I am now a very happy atheist. I remember in elementary school - many years ago - that we had to use a code on our favourite (I'm Canadian, please don't say I spelled favourite wrong) book to "decode" - I decided upon a "Choose your own adventure" book. I found out I was going to win a Nobel Peace prize at 14 years old and some other crazy stuff... ahh the memories. Keep up the good work dragon hunter!

Bethani Butler, Winnipeg, MB, Canada
October 27, 2008 10:09am

A more impressive Bible Code format includes Gematria. Using the english code 6 gematria, God=156, JESUS=444, CHRIST=462, and JESUS CHRIST=906, etc.

Now if you check the KJV new testament you will find the words " THE FATHER " 156 times, thus the father is GOD.

If you search for " THE LORD " you will find it 462 times, thus the lord is CHRIST.

If you search for " THE FATHER ", " THE SON ", and " THE HOLY SPIRIT " combined, you will find them a total of 462 times, thus once again they are all connected to christ.

What gets really interesting, is when you also start using numbers such as 156, 444, 906, etc, as ELS min. and max. range settings.

What you find then is ...... well let's say a whole lot indeed.

K. Sean Proudler, Ontario Canada
October 30, 2008 11:41am

Good job on this article. One of the best scientific refutations of the so-called "Bible Code" is by an Australian mathematican named Brendan McKay. McKay worked with some other academics like Dror Bar-Natan, Gil Kalai, and others in doing numerous work to refute the so-called "Bible Codes" from many mathematical angles. One of the best things Brendan McKay did was show examples of "codes" just like the alleged "Bible Codes" in other books. He showed that alleged "Bible Codes" can be found in any book of equivalent or comparable length to the Hebrew Old Testament. Most notably McKay showed numerous examples from the books "Moby Dick" and "War & Peace"

Google search "Brendan McKay" or just go to this link for McKay's personal website: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html

Brent, Ohio
December 24, 2008 7:15am

Surely the best way to disprove this Bible Code nonsense would be to search for a phrase along the lines of 'MICHAEL DROSNIN IS FULL OF CRAP' or 'THE BIBLE CODE IS A LOAD OF RUBBISH'? Then he would seem to be somewhat hoist by his own petard.

I'm not spending $70 (well, the equivalent to $70 in sterling anyway) to do this though...

Nick D, Birmingham UK
December 30, 2008 6:19pm

Another thing to keep in mind with something you said. First I'll quote from your article quickly, "Second, at the time that Drosnin made the Rabin prediction, it was a practical certainty that Rabin was going to be assassinated."
This is so true. At the time Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated on Nov. 4, 1995 it was clear that there were extreme threats on his life. It has been noted in Israeli sources that Rabin was receiving death threats right and left; and even arguing with his bodyguards about them wanting him to wear a bulletproof vest.

This situation was like this ever since really, 1993 and the Oslo peace accords; with Rabin signing for the Israeli side. The right-wing militant Israeli terrorist groups where very focal from 1993 on. For example you have the February 25, 1994 slaughter and murderer of 29 Palestinian Muslim worshippers in the Ibrahim Mosque and shrine, by an extremist right-wing settler Israeli, named Baruch Goldstein who belonged to the so-called "JDL" terrorist group that is recognized as a terrorist group by America, Israel, etc.

With these events mixed, with all the usual tension in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Rabin's assassination was not really a suprise or that shocking. Also Israeli leaders have faced assassination before, see the October 29, 1957 grenade incident in the Israeli Knesset that injuried and almost killed then Israeli leader David Ben-Gurion.

Drosnin provided not a single detail, to protect Rabin. Obviously fake!

Brent, Ohio
December 31, 2008 12:40pm

Brent,
I wanted to ask if it is in any way possible to get you to tell me your home address? The reason I ask, well, let's just say I would like to constantly throw rocks through your house windows. I understand it may become costly and a real pain, but hey, if you don't mind muslim rockets being fired into Israeli cities, why would you mind me throwing rocks through your window? Just wondering. You people are so absurd. I wonder if your child, if you have any, God forbid, gets killed, would you not want the police to swiftly find the suspect? Wouldn't you want a judge to hand the suspect swift justice? Just wondering. Yet, again, hypocrites are found everywhere.

Thomas, Chicago

Thomas, Chicago
January 06, 2009 6:59am

The Israelis broke the ceasefire, this was confirmed even by a Zionist owned news network like CNN! Also even before this Israel broke the ceasefire by refusing to open up border crossings and continuing to use its control over the American-backed dictatorship of the tyrant Hosni Mubarak to keep the vital Rafah crossing from Gaza into Egypt closed. Basically the Israeli government turned Gaza into a complete outdoor prison and attempted to starve people into submission. The Israeli government is the true terrorist just like Deir Yassin massacre, and Sabra and Shatila massacres in Lebanon.

Also what does any of your silly statement have to do with this article refutin the silly lie of "bible codes"?

Brent, Ohio
January 06, 2009 8:02pm

Wow, it looks like there is a little tension about this whole Israel / Palestine thing. Who knew?

H. Tiberius Miser, Toronto, Ontario
January 12, 2009 11:28am

As I said before: The situation was like this ever since really, 1993 and the Oslo peace accords; with Rabin signing for the Israeli side. The right-wing militant Israeli terrorist groups where very focal from 1993 on. For example you have the February 25, 1994 slaughter and murder of 29 Palestinian Muslim worshippers in the Ibrahim Mosque and shrine, by an extremist right-wing settler Israeli, named Baruch Goldstein who belonged to the so-called "JDL" terrorist group that is recognized as a terrorist group by America, Israel, etc.

With these events mixed, with all the usual tension in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Rabin's assassination was not really a suprise or that shocking. Also Israeli leaders have faced assassination before, see the October 29, 1957 grenade incident in the Israeli Knesset that injuried and almost killed then Israeli leader David Ben-Gurion.

Drosnin provided not a single detail, to protect Rabin. Obviously fake! It was clear as day to everyone that Rabin was going to face assassination and thus Drosnin claiming to have "predicted" this is nothing. Especially when he didn't say who would do (Palestinian or Israeli assassin), what day it would happen?, where it would happen?, the method of the assassin would employ?

Just look at this compared to things like Littlewood's law and the Law of Truly Large Numbers. As stated before also Drosnin claimed there was going to be a nuclear holocaust of the world in both 2000 and 2006, which failed!

Brent, Ohio
January 14, 2009 12:41am

Also zionist leaders have faced assassination before and since; so it wasn't "unimaginbale" that one might face it at that time. Especially as I showed the political situation was so tense at this time, after the Oslo Accords of 1993 things were very flamable. The Zionist Jewish terrorist groups really wanted to kill Yitzhak Rabin; as did Palestinian resistance groups that wanted to kill both Rabin and too some extent Yasser Arafat for agreeing to the Oslo Accords (and recognizing the Zionist state while not receiving anything but simple recognition of the PLO).

As for assassinations and attemps:
On October 29, 1957: Israel's prime minister David Ben Gurion and five of his ministers are injured when a hand grenade is tossed into Israel's parliament, the Knesset.

and

on October 17, 2001- Hamdi Quran is a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. He grew to prominence when he assassinated Rehavam Ze'evi, the Tourism Minister of Israel.

Brent, Ohio
March 03, 2009 5:20pm

The best variation I've seen so far is the Origin Code. A man used code finding software on the 6th edition of Darwin's On the Origin of Species. He repeated Drosnin's little experiment about Rabin.

Guess what he discovered, hundreds of possible references for it.

I used codebreaking software with Dracula and got just as many hits. I went looking for all sorts of things in there.

It is nonsense to think that the bible has special powers in the text. If this was discovered in India, it would be called the Upanishadic code. If this was Ancient Greece, it would be called the Homeric Code.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
March 28, 2009 12:38am

A more impressive Bible Code format includes Gematria. Using the english code 6 gematria, God=156, JESUS=444, CHRIST=462, and JESUS CHRIST=906, etc.

Now if you check the KJV new testament you will find the words " THE FATHER " 156 times, thus the father is GOD.

If you search for " THE LORD " you will find it 462 times, thus the lord is CHRIST.

If you search for " THE FATHER ", " THE SON ", and " THE HOLY SPIRIT " combined, you will find them a total of 462 times, thus once again they are all connected to christ.

What gets really interesting, is when you also start using numbers such as 156, 444, 906, etc, as ELS min. and max. range settings.

What you find then is ...... well let's say a whole lot indeed.

For instance, number like 156, 444, 888, etc, as your ELS numbers and you search for words
like......

"GEORGE" "WALKER" "BUSH IS" "THE SON" "OF SATAN", you will find these words a Total of 666
times.

"GEORGE" "WALKER" "BUSH IS" "THE ANTI" "CHRIST", you will find these words a Total of 666
times.

"GEORGE" "WALKER" "BUSH IS" "THE ANTI" "JESUS" "CHRIST", you will find these words a Total
of 1,666 times.

"GEORGE" "WALKER" "BUSH IS" "THE ANTI" "CHRIST" "AND THE" "ANTI GOD", you will find
these words a Total of 2,666 times.

"GEORGE" "WALKER" "BUSH IS" "THE ANTI", you will find these words a Total of 462 times.
CHRIST = 462, thus Bush is the ANTI-&quo

K. Sean Proudler, Toronto, On, Canada
April 04, 2009 9:54pm

proudler, this seems very strange. Brendan McKay & Co. have refuted the lie and myth of alleged "Bible Codes" and those who promote them are now just making stuff up: like you. I suggest you just go and read:

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html

Brent, Columbus, Ohio
April 07, 2009 11:05am

You can find things just like the claims about the Gematria in Edgar Allan Poe's works see Brendan McKay's page

Also read: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin_mark.html
Panin used the edition of Westcott and Hort as the "basis" for his work, but very often made use of the many alternative readings that those authors suggested. He was prepared to pick and choose almost arbitrarily from the variations, meaning that in fact he was really working with a huge number of texts, few of them corresponding to any real manuscript. After this deliberate tweaking of the text to make his patterns work, he then calculated "probabilities" without taking that tweaking into account. Panin even published his own Greek text, carefully tweaked to provide the patterns that he most liked.

Panin believed that he was reconstructing the original text, but his logic was circular. By deliberately designing the patterns himself by tweaking the text, he eliminated his own argument that the patterns proved an original design. The very most he could logically conclude was that his attempt to produce patterns had been successful.

Incidentally, the edition of Westcott and Hort is today regarded as poor scholarship.

Brent, Columbus, Ohio
April 07, 2009 9:09pm

You are referring to a form of code that is not related to the code format that I speak of. See->

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

Yes it is true that by today's manner of thinking, if one person invented a square wheel, and then later on another person invented a round wheel and presented it to the world, it is to be immediately laughed at and be tossed into the garbage.

" Man's logic of today says that ' If one wheel don't work, then all wheels dun work.' Isn't that right uncle Jed "." It sure is Jethro ". " Shucks Jethro, even Elly May knows that. "

In short, it is called " Reject Before Inspect ".

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

k. Sean Proudler, Ontario Canada
April 14, 2009 6:23am

Refuting clown proudler; link: http://scienceblogs.com/bushwells/2007/07/out_there.php

19th-century philosopher Alfred Schopenhauer's scowling visage greets visitors by way of introducing a famous quote frequently co-opted for lunatic purposes:

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

The implication here is that because everything that turns out to be right initially looks goofy (a false premise in itself),even the most far-fetched ideas should be treated as valid until proven otherwise. This is a classic invocation of the logical fallacy known as affirming the consequent, which takes the form, "If A, then B.
B. Therefore, A." In this case, the crank-in-chief, K. Sean Proudler (who was careful to include a copyright notice) is effectively saying, "If something is true, it looked nutty at first; I have a new idea that looks nutty; therefore my idea is true."
...
Can you give 3 to 5 examples of Bible passages you are convinced foretell the future or whatever it is that you're claiming no one can refute?

Posted by: Kevin Beck | July 18, 2007 2:44 PM

end quote.

Brent, Columbus, Ohio
April 14, 2009 8:40pm

Some see truth, some don't. For instance, prior to having completed grade 10, I had noticed that MOTION seemed to be rather odd. It contained 2 variables, Speed, and Distance. Variables range from zero to infinity. Cross an infinite distance, and you will go on forever, since there is no end. Traveling at an infinite speed means travel to across any distance in zero time. ( If it takes time it means that you can still move faster, by using less time. )

Thus if both variables are set to infinity, the outcome is -> You will go on forever, in no time at all.

I could see that this could not occur Holistically, thus it is based upon a Relativistic structure. Soon after that I saw what is required make it possible, and converted this understanding into a geometric representation, which simplified converting the understanding into equations.

I then presented this to my science teacher. Just after mentioning the peculiarity about motion, the teacher laughed at my claims, and told me that I had no idea what I was talking about.

However, years later I found that my equations were exactly the same as equations known today as the Lorentz-Fitzgerald Contraction equation, the Time Dilation equation, the Lorentz Transformation equations, and the Velocity Addition equation. In short, I had surpassed Albert Einstein's achievements concerning the theory of Special Relativity.

Not bad for what you decribe as the crank-in-chief and the clown.

K. Sean Proudler, Ontario Canada
April 15, 2009 4:09am

Nice job copying and pasting from websites, you truly a nut! Another person refuting proudler's insanity on so-called "English gematria" and the fraud "Bible codes"; from: http://www.catholic-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=181056

btw Sean Proudler, from my understanding of the subject, English is not a sacred language, and most of the codes dealing with so called "English Gematria" are concoctions.
...
We've done some searching into the website promoted by the original poster (removed), the material being promoted comes from and have found some very problematic things with the conclusions he draws.

Locked.
...
So your whole claims about "gematria" in English are garbage to begin with.

Also refuting your claims again: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/index.html

Brent, Columbus, Ohio
April 15, 2009 10:04am

Good job on this article Brian.

Mike, Orlando, Florida
April 21, 2009 1:32pm

Refuting the claims of K. Sean Proudler, Ontario Canada made on
October 30, 2008 11:41am

His logic is flawed from the start! See; Refuting K. Sean Proudler’s lies:

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=THE+FATHER&searchtype=phrase&version1=9&bookset=2&startnumber=101

Keyword Search of: “THE FATHER” (exact phrase) in the KJV version of the New Testament:

“THE FATHER” Results: 125 (not the 156 times that the liar Proudler claims!)

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=THE%20LORD&version1=9&searchtype=phrase&bookset=2&limit=bookset

“THE LORD” Results: 418 (not the 462 times that the liar Proudler claims!)

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=THE+FATHER%2C+THE+SON%2C+and+THE+HOLY+SPIRIT&searchtype=phrase&version1=9&bookset=2

“THE FATHER, THE SON, and THE HOLY SPIRIT” Results: No results found.
No results found.
...
So your original claims you make of how many times certain words appear in the KJV version of the New Testament are false. All you have to do to refute you on this is to go to the search at: http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/
and say "match exact phrase", in KJV Bible, and only search in "New Testament" and your disproven K. Sean Proudler!

Also from: http://www.catholic-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19732

English is not a "sacred language", and most of the codes dealing with so called "English Gematria" are concoctions

Brent, Columbus, Ohio
April 21, 2009 6:15pm

Very interesting article.

David, Atlanta, Georgia
April 22, 2009 3:08pm

Also another thing that completely refutes the lying, pagan, fraud "K. Sean Proudler" is that he doesn't give any stats for his alleged "English gematria"!!! So-called "gematria" is a false occult thing anyway, but it only exists in languages like Hebrew. Also see Arabic Abjad.

For alleged Hebrew "gematria" there is a set thing. See a chart of Hebrew alphabet: The Mispar gadol (see below) values are:

Decimal Hebrew Glyph
1 Aleph א
2 Bet ב
3 Gimel ג
4 Daleth ד
5 He ה
6 Waw ו
7 Zayin ז
8 Heth ח
9 Teth ט
10 Yodh י
20 or 500 Kaph כ, ך
30 Lamed ל

end quote.

This is just some of the Hebrew one, but you can see even this is completely arbitrary and thus has no scientific bases! See Kaph can be 20 or 500, so you can just change it as you wish?!!! The liar K. Sean Proudler doesn't even give any set chart for his claims of alleged "English gematria" he is completely just MAKING THINGS UP! There is no "English gematria" and there sure is heck is not any set rules for how much each letter allegedly equals in this fake alleged "English gematria". Proudler the liar has been destroyed! Most people just ignore this retard as he is so easily refuted and wrong! He only has a little over 400 results in a Google search of his name "K. Sean Proudler". He wants to claim people allegedly "can't refute him", it just that nobody pays attention to his easily refuted idiocy! I just destroyed his lies, he makes garbage up: there is NO alleged "English gematria"!

Brent, Columbus, Ohio
April 22, 2009 11:13pm

Complete refutation of liar, "K. Sean Proudler"; from: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php#c1590382

Quote-
Yet Another Bible Code Bozo
by Mark C. Chu-Carroll

But anyway, back to the code. It's not really particularly different from any of the other rubbish out there. But it's very amusing, both because of the way it makes the same old mistakes, and by the sheer hubris of the guy behind it.

His code is basically a combination of skip codes and gematria.

For those unfamiliar, skip codes are a method where you select a text, select a starting point, and then pick every Nth letter. The resulting letters are strung together, and you select the word boundaries. The "codes" discovered by this are basically words that can be formed from consecutive letters in a skip sequence.

Gematria is an old Jewish thing, which originally came from the fact that in Hebrew, you use the same characters for writing letters and numbers - which means that every word can be interpreted as a number, and many numbers can be interpreted as words.
...
He plays with all sorts of similarly stupid stuff. Because of the way that he uses both wrapping, and ranges of skip codes, he's gotten even sillier than the usual bible code stuff. If you can pick any range of skip distances, and any search string, you can come up with pretty much any answer you want.
...
you can get any results you want.

Abdul-Rahman, Detroit, Michigan
April 28, 2009 9:29am

I am glad that Brian has helped dispose of this myth. The Bible doesn't need hidden codes, as all we Christians know. It's greatest gift is the direct texts ity uses to convey its great messages.

You might want to consider looking into other Christian writers and commentators on this topic.

I don't know of a single Bible scholar and believer who goes for this nonsense. Maybe the poor gullible reader (those who would buy Michael drosnin's book, for example) think tht because this is God's revelation, it should contain all sorts of other wonderful goodies that are specially hidden. Well, God doesn't need hidden puzzles; manm is far too efficient in inventing those.

At least one Christian pastor, Nam Park, has debunked this in the same way. Thank you, Nam, and thank you, Brian. But I think you wasted a good 70 bucks on that software. Even I could have warned you...

Joe Boudreault, Hanover, Ontario, Canada
May 03, 2009 7:58pm

I am amazed at how quickly certain elements within Evangelical Christianity jumped on the Bible Code bandwagon. Canadian Christian author Grant Jeffrey wrote several books, stating the Bible Code "proved" the divine authorship of the Bible. Even without the Bible Code, the Bible cannot stand up to critical analysis.

Michael L, Squamish, Canada
May 18, 2009 12:37pm

Michael, I am familiar with Grant Jeffreys, but I am not familiar with his exposition in support of Bible codes. Was he supporting the same stuff that Michael Drosnin was yakkiing about, or something else?

Just because "certain elements" of evangelical Christianity are into codes doesn't mean they all are. I know of many evangelical Christians (ie Seventh Day Adventists) who tried to predict, to the exact date, the second coming of Christ. They proved to be deservedly wrong, of course. Yet the Adventist churches have done an enormous amount of good in many Third World countries.

The Bible HAS indeed withstood the criticism levelled against it down through the ages. Biblical prophecies alone are enough to validate it's claims as to it's divine inspiration. No other "holy book" can do what the Bible has done. Think about it: if it is the Truth From God, it cannot fail to be valid and real.

By the way, I once went through the study papers of an elderly friend who was looking into the numerology of the Bible. Very interesting stuff. Ie, 7 is the number of perfection, 8 is the number of completion. Etc. etc. Quite comprehensive topic. That's not code, mind you...And it in no way tries to make claims other than what the texts of the Bible makes - it just shows the use of numbers as well as language in inspiration.

Still curious as to what you think is a failure to stand up to critical analysis. What analysis is that?

Joe Boudreault, Hanover, On, Canada
May 29, 2009 7:40pm

The Bible has been refuted countless times.

As for your alleged "prophecies" in your "Bible"; all these pathetic claims have been refuted by many true scholars.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/christianity/prophecy.html

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/

and many more good websites that refute the pathetic claims of evangelical "blind faith" propagandists.

Brent, bklimas@hotmail.com
May 29, 2009 11:36pm

I believe in the tooth fairy. Want to know why?

This guy at the pub showed me a photo of an ancient manuscript about the fairy. Later that day, a friends nephews tooth fell out.

The fairy works mysteriously. I took this as a sign.

Now my life has purpuse.

Angel, Outer Space
May 30, 2009 7:34am

What a surprise.

You all live in the Land of the DAMNED!

Where the Great Falling Away is about to take place...THIS MONTH! JUNE 2009! When the FALSE Moses and the FALSE Elijah lead God's people into the hands of the Pharisees!:

http://www.ideacityonline.com/
(FALSE Moses)

http://www.ideacityonline.com/presenters/ronald-weinland
(FALSE Elijah)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees

Because the ANTICHRIST is in Canada!

So let's see how many of you POTHEADS, like MR. DUNG above, can rebuttal THIS!:

http://www.bible-codes.org/index.htm#bible%20code%20index

Yeah....LOOK CLOSELY!

http://www.bible-codes.org/dean-coombs-bio-information.htm

Born Dec. 28, 1962, Mt Sinai Hospital, Toronto, Canada, circumcised on the 8th day.

SAY HELLO TO JOHN, YA FUCKIN' RETARDS!!

You DUMMYS better wake up now, dude!

http://www.biblecodedigest.com/

http://www.exodus2006.com/
(Peter is here)

http://www.godshew.org/
(Thomas WAS here, but Daniel being MOVED as I type.)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+10-12

Cuz Elohim family is being moved OUT of the Land of the DAMNED...

FOR THE WEDDING!!

http://www.exodus2006.com/L0rd%20kyr0N/jesus2010.htm

http://www.exodus2006.com/L0rd%20kyr0N/jesus2010b.htm

THE END.

Metatron, Tampa/Florida
June 01, 2009 6:06pm

Brent,
Pathetic claims? True scholars? Blind faith propagandists? As if these categories don’t include the world secularists (like you) at large???

Your website references steer us to a very biased corner, ie people like Theodore Drange, Jim Lippard and E.T. Babinski. These people are hostile to the idea of prophecy to the point of ignoring history itself vs those prophecies. For example, one article, “Inspiration of the Bible compared with discoveries of modern astronomy” claims that the Bible doesn’t say that there are ‘nine planets’ in our solar system. This is piddling – the Bible never claimed to be an astronomical book. Yet it did state that the earth was “suspended in space and hung on nothing” centuries before any astronomer ever figured this out. Babinski is wrong. In spite of these naysayers, science has always supported the Biblical claims, not undermined them. Look closer, you skeptics!

Angel, you’re truly in Outer Space. You haven’t got a clue as to what critical thinking is all about... Stay away!

Metatron, Florida... you think that “ya fuckin’retards” is critical thinking, or intelligent? You haven’t woken up to the real world. No wonder nobody will bother to seek out your *** websites...!

Joe Boudreault, Hanover, On, Canada
June 09, 2009 2:00pm

Concerning Brent calling me a liar, he is in error.

His attempts to refute my word was done so poorly that he only looked at the number of verse word matches. Many times a word or a phrase is repeated more than just once within a verse, but dumbo Brent skipped that fact.

If you use a proper Bible search software, you will find that all of my quotes are 100% correct.

See http://tinyurl.com/godscodes

K. SEAN PROUDLER, TORONTO CANADA
June 11, 2009 8:17am

There is no such thing as English "gematria" to begin with. You have been completely refuted here: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

As for Joe and his claims of "amazing" bible science. All I have to say is the Tower of Babel story in Genesis Chapter 11! You know the story were Yahweh allegedly becomes afraid when people try to build a "tower into heaven", lol!!! Yahweh was afraid of them, and they somehow could use those ancient building methods to go up into heaven!! We still haven't done this with modern skyscraper construction and our technology!

A funny video on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbL4PbTVpPs&feature=channel_page

Skeptic Bible Study: Greatest Absurdity

Brent, bklimas@hotmail.com
June 11, 2009 5:41pm

Sorry, Brent, but you obviously don't know how to read Bible stories. Not only that, as you are a total skeptic against biblical thigs, why would you bother to mock a God you don't believe exists?
God was not afraid of the Babylonians. A creator is not in fear of his creation, man. So here's a little lesson for you (pay attention): God desires that we put him first. Thsi was laid out in Eden. Whem men and women push aside God for their own selfish things, God will confuse their plans. The tower into heaven was a tower, that's all. But it was in defiance of God. Man had everything in Eden and we blew it, but he still wants the best for us. Before you criticize. learn what it is you are talking about.

Joe Boudreault, Hanover, On, Canada
June 11, 2009 7:06pm

I think Joe, to accept the old testament as fact, someone would have to unlearn a great deal.

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour Plain, Australia
June 11, 2009 8:22pm

The code 6 English Gematria is based upon the Sumerian system.

The English gematria sets increments of six by adding 6 to each letter of the alphabet (i.e. A = 6, B = 12, C = 18, D = 24, E = 30, etc).

The Sumerian system can still be seen today in our use of the foot (12 inches = 2 x 6) and yard (36 inches = 6 x 6) and in our Sexagesimal measurement of time (60 seconds = 6 x 10, 60 minuets = 6 x 10, 24 hours = 4 x 6).

As for being refuted, as Brent says, check for yourself. The arguments are humorous.

http://tinyurl.com/godscodes

K. SEAN PROUDLER, TORONTO CANADA
June 12, 2009 7:47am

Refuting you from: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

What makes it even worse is that he's doing all this on an ENGLISH translation written more than fifteen hundred years after the original work. It wasn't written by any "prophets".
...
What are some of his results? He wants to search for the answer "What is the mark of christ?". He pulls out first the word "mark" - that's going to be what he searches for. Then he takes the word "christ", and uses it to set the skip distances to search, using its numerical value of 462. But since he needs a range of search distances, he arbitrarily decides to add 1000 to it, and searches for references to "mark", using skip distances ranging from 462 to 1462. Why those numbers? Why 1462 instead of 2462, or 10462? Because 1462 is the one that works. Using that, the number of matches for "mark" is 462.
...
He plays with all sorts of similarly stupid stuff. Because of the way that he uses both wrapping, and ranges of skip codes, he's gotten even sillier than the usual bible code stuff. If you can pick any range of skip distances, and any search string, you can come up with pretty much any answer you want.

Brent, Ohio
June 12, 2009 7:36pm

Marius,
"...I think that to accept the Old Testament as fact, someone would have to unlearn a great deal" is a truism.

There is such a thing as wrongful learning, I suppose. There is the way the world seems to be and the way it actually is. I myself believe that the Christian (Bible) viewpoint is the real way.

But that's just me and my God - who am I to argue with the world as it SEEMS to be???

Joe Boudreault, Hanover, On, Canada
June 17, 2009 5:10pm

Another point showing the danger Rabin lived in was the First Palestinian Intifada occurred from 1987 to 1993. During this period you had the 1991 Madrid Peace Conference and the 1993 Oslo Accords which enflamed tensions and gave much power to right-wing Zionist Jewish terrorist groups inside Israel. For example read about the Mosque of Abraham massacre in Al-Khalil (Hebron), Palestine in the Occupied West Bank, this massacre of 29 Palestinian worshippers was carried out by a racist Zionist Jewish terrorist Baruch Goldstein of the terrorist Zionist "JDF" on Feb. 25, 1994.

Brent, bklimas@hotmail.com
July 16, 2009 8:32pm

The Brent, you will just love the new " The Lamb of God " additions, all 15 of them, all working hand in hand.

See- http://tinyurl.com/godscodes

K. Sean Proudler, Canada
July 18, 2009 2:24pm

proudler your trash has been already refuted, along with your fake alleged English "gematria" (which doesn't even exist to begin with!)

From: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

In more modern times, tons of crackpots have latched on to gematria. Only instead of learning hebrew, they just create numerical mappings for english letters, and then do it in english.

In terms of math, it's really just same-old, same-old. As I said at the beginning, humans are very good at finding patterns. If we're sufficiently determined to put in the time and try enough combinations, we can find patterns in anything.

But since he needs a range of search distances, he arbitrarily decides to add 1000 to it, and searches for references to "mark", using skip distances ranging from 462 to 1462. Why those numbers? Why 1462 instead of 2462, or 10462? Because 1462 is the one that works. Using that, the number of matches for "mark" is 462.
...
He plays with all sorts of similarly stupid stuff. Because of the way that he uses both wrapping, and ranges of skip codes, he's gotten even sillier than the usual bible code stuff. If you can pick any range of skip distances, and any search string, you can come up with pretty much any answer you want.
...
Roughly 100%. If you can play any numeric games you want, and interpret the results any way you want, you can get any results you want. If I were willing to actually pay for a copy of the software he used, I'l

Brent, Ohio
July 19, 2009 11:39pm

All forms of gemetria did not exist until they were created!

Using letters, and a random letter generator, the number of possible outcomes is endless.

With this being the case, Brent's paragraphs above could just be the outcome of a random letter generator at work.

However, people in general do not draw such a conclusion. Common sense over rules such mistakes.

If you do not understand the code, mistakes in judgment do occur.

http://tinyurl.com/godscodes

Sound files have now been added to website.

K. Sean Proudler, Canada
August 11, 2009 4:48pm

Michael Drosnin and Shoemaker-Levy 9
The fragments of the comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 collided with the planet Jupiter over several days centered at July 19-20, 1994. Michael Drosnin's book, The Bible Code, claims that he predicted the exact date of the collision "two months before the collision". In interviews with the media Drosnin has been known to expand this period to a whole year.

By way of comparison, the date of collision (though not the certainty of it) was precisely determined by astronomers already by mid-1993 and successively refined during the following months. By January 1994, it was known to within 10 minutes.

Drosnin shows two pictures that feature the name of the comet. On page 36 there is a portion of Isaiah with "on the 8th of Av", "Jupiter" and a word he translates as "will pound" though it strictly means "crush" or "mince".

On page 37 there is a portion of Genesis, so large that he can only display a part of it. It shows the name of the comet and "Jupiter", a remarkably weak achievement for a picture using nearly 10% of the entire book.
Drosnin got the date wrong...
The Jewish date 8th of Av in that year began at sunset on July 15 and ended at the following sunset. However, in Israel where the Book of Isaiah was written, the collision occurred very late on the 16th, making it the 9th of Av.

...but War and Peace got it right!
The date was also the 9th of Av where War and Peace was written, as well as where it was translated into Hebrew. The following portion of the Hebrew translation of War and Peace shows the right date, as well as much supporting evidence.

Brent, Ohio
December 03, 2009 1:59am

Website has been updated. Further Bible Codes, which are rejected by those who place beliefs ahead of truths, have been added.

See- http://tinyurl.com/godscodes

K. Sean Proudler, Jerusalem
December 26, 2009 1:50pm

Again refuting the clown proudler's claims: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

By Mark Chu-Carroll PhD

Quote- In more modern times, tons of crackpots have latched on to gematria. Only instead of learning hebrew, they just create numerical mappings for english letters, and then do it in english.
...
What are some of his results? He wants to search for the answer "What is the mark of christ?". He pulls out first the word "mark" - that's going to be what he searches for. Then he takes the word "christ", and uses it to set the skip distances to search, using its numerical value of 462. But since he needs a range of search distances, he arbitrarily decides to add 1000 to it, and searches for references to "mark", using skip distances ranging from 462 to 1462. Why those numbers? Why 1462 instead of 2462, or 10462? Because 1462 is the one that works. Using that, the number of matches for "mark" is 462.
...
He plays with all sorts of similarly stupid stuff. Because of the way that he uses both wrapping, and ranges of skip codes, he's gotten even sillier than the usual bible code stuff. If you can pick any range of skip distances, and any search string, you can come up with pretty much any answer you want.
...
Roughly 100%. If you can play any numeric games you want, and interpret the results any way you want, you can get any results you want.

end quote.

Oct. 25, 1957 grenade attack on "Israeli" Knesset was done by a man named Moshe Dwek.

Brent, Ohio
January 12, 2010 11:00pm

The thing that I think is that final coffin nail against the divinity of codes like what's found in the bible is all the cool things that anybody could do when they just put some effort into it. A mortal human who puts real effort into it can skip code a whole entire hidden chapter he inserted into his book, so God could write great skip codes he hid in skip codes in skip codes with all letters being part of some message (This great level of skills would then get lost in all of the varied translations and the various alternate versions found floating 'round in print). But chance is an atrociously worse writer than intelligence, human or devine. You can see the bible code bares luck's identifiably signature lack of real talent. If you remove all of my spaces and my punctuation you'll find a message encoded in my paragraph, hidden with a skip of 21.

Jonathan, Earth
January 13, 2010 11:30am

Spend a few hours studying this particular web page,
http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm
and you will begin to realize that Mark Chu-Carroll is in a whole lot of trouble.

You will begin to learn the encoding patterns, especially if you Click on the speakers located per code or code group revealed.

The number of codes has now grown dramatically.

K. Sean Proudler, New Jerusalem
January 14, 2010 4:10pm

Proudler has been refuted much on his fake "gematria" and games see: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

But what I want to give a quote on here is again on the danger Rabin lived under in 1995 (note incident of Moshe Dwek in 1957 trying to kill Ben-Gurion also). It was clear to all that Rabin was facing death threats; see this on the atmosphere in Israel at that time. From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/yitzhak-rabins-killers-ta_b_245976.html
Quote- Concerned that Netanyahu would inflame an already dangerous climate, Israeli Housing Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer warned the hyper-ambitious politician, "You'd better restrain your people. Otherwise it will end in murder. They tried to kill me just now... Your people are mad. If someone is murdered, the blood will be on your hands... The settlers have gone crazy, and someone will be murdered here, if not today, then in another week or another month!"
Netanyahu ignored Ben-Eliezer, striding to the podium to chants of "Bibi! Bibi! Bibi!" and an eerily prescient introduction as Israel's "next prime minister."

One month later, Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a right-wing radical and student at Bar-Ilan University, the ideological training ground of Israel's religious-nationalist front. Rabin's wife, Leah, refused to forgive Netanyahu, insisting he was at least as responsible for her husband's murder as the extremist who pulled the trigger.

end quote.

Drosnin no details!

Brent, Ohio
February 09, 2010 3:31am

Small correction. Neither Yigal Amir nor the far-right in Israel are strictly speaking "anti-peace" as some call them. They are opposed to territorial concessions, not peace deals.

Ryan, Flushing
February 10, 2010 1:59am

In response to Ryan, I guess in theory Yigal Amir and the far-right Zionist groups aren't "anti-peace" but they are in theory against any realistic peace deal (even the Western backed two state solution). The only "peace deal" the extreme far-right Zionists will ever except is to kick out all the Palestinians. In theory even the Western/Zionist hated Hamas movement has done more to say they will accept a peace solution. Hamas has said if the Palestinians as a whole come to a consensus to recognize the Zionist state (in any future peace deal) that Hamas will fall in line and agree with this. This would likely be if the Zionists agree to something like the Arab Peace Initiative of 2002 where all the Arab states (that would include Palestine) offered to recognize the Zionist state ("Israel") in return for the Zionists withdrawing to the pre-1967 borders and dismantling all the Jewish only settlements in the West Bank that the vast majority of the world recognizes as illegal.

Brent, Ohio
February 10, 2010 2:24pm

"In theory even the Western/Zionist hated Hamas movement has done more to say they will accept a peace solution."

Well in practice they've done more to show that they will not accept a peace solution.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,188137,00.html

"Hamas opposed the Oslo peace process from the outset because it involved recognizing Israel's existence, and set about trying sabotaging that process by sending waves of suicide bombers into Israeli cities in the mid-1990s. The organization's ultimate goal is to create an Islamic state in all of pre-1948 Palestine, which includes all of Israel. But its short-term objective is to drive the Israelis out of all territories they conquered in June 1967 — the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza."

I think it's fair to say that Hamas and Kahanists oppose peaceful coexistence. Now let's get back to the topic of the Bible Code.

Max, Boston, MA
February 15, 2010 10:46am

"Well in practice they've done more to show that they will not accept a peace solution."

Actually they have done more then the far right wing Zionists. The Hamas movement has said they would be willing to accept even a two state solution (not even the One State solution many Palestinians and their supporters prefer) on the pre-1967 border. From a 2008 article:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035414.html
"The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders."

As for the Oslo Accords most Palestinians and their supporters are against this 1993 treaty because it saw Yasser Arafat and the PLO recognize the Zionist state while not receiving recognition of a Palestinian state. All the Palestinian side got in the 1993 Oslo Accords was the Zionist officials to recognize the Palestinian Authority (PA) as the representative of the Palestinian people in the "peace process". More Zionist Jewish only settlements have gone up in the occupied West Bank since 1993 then ever before.

As for the "Bible Code", one could just as easily say the Zionist official Benjamin Ben Eliezer allegedly "predicted" Rabin's killing! Drosnin made a lucky educated guess only (with no details at all). In his most recent early 2000s book the "Bible Code II" he made many wrong "predictions" about nuclear war in 2006, an economic collapse in 2002 that never happened, and that Gaddafi would get nukes all wrong.

Brent, Ohio
February 15, 2010 3:05pm

I met a rabbi once who believes in the Bible Code! He told me all about it, and I was like ... "
Uh...wow." I wish I could have referred him to this podcast.

Abby, Austin, TX
February 17, 2010 9:54pm

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

A connection between the TORH-TORH-YHWH-HROT-HROT hidden codes that were found within the Torah, and additional hidden codes found within the New Testament of the KJV Bible, have now been revealed.

Enjoy.

K. Sean Proudler, Toronto Canada ( New Jerusalem )
February 28, 2010 4:01am

The clown Proudler has long since been refuted. See: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

Quote- In more modern times, tons of crackpots have latched on to gematria. Only instead of learning hebrew, they just create numerical mappings for english letters, and then do it in english.
...
What are some of his results? He wants to search for the answer "What is the mark of christ?". He pulls out first the word "mark" - that's going to be what he searches for. Then he takes the word "christ", and uses it to set the skip distances to search, using its numerical value of 462. But since he needs a range of search distances, he arbitrarily decides to add 1000 to it, and searches for references to "mark", using skip distances ranging from 462 to 1462. Why those numbers? Why 1462 instead of 2462, or 10462? Because 1462 is the one that works. Using that, the number of matches for "mark" is 462.
...
He plays with all sorts of similarly stupid stuff. Because of the way that he uses both wrapping, and ranges of skip codes, he's gotten even sillier than the usual bible code stuff. If you can pick any range of skip distances, and any search string, you can come up with pretty much any answer you want.

end quote.

Also; "Please note that the Rabin assassination was a plausible guess even before it occurred -- that's why Drosnin went looking for a "code" predicting it in the first place. The fact that he mistranslated the Hebrew quite badly has never seem

Brent, Ohio
February 28, 2010 6:11pm

In his book "The Bible Code II" published on December 2, 2002; Drosnin claims there would be a nuclear war (i.e. nuclear holocaust) in 2006: that obviously did not happen! Also in this book Drosnin made two other claims I want to speak on. First, Drosnin claimed Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi would allegedly get and horde nuclear weapons and WMD's. In reality the exact opposite happened after the American invasion and destruction of Iraq, and the capture of the former US buddy Saddam. Gaddafi completely bent over backwards to please the West and shipped any of his big weapon making stuff over to the US.
The second issue was Drosnin claimed in his book that Yasser Arafat would allegedly be assassinated. There is no evidence this happened Arafat simply died of disease, conspiracy theories about his death are wrong. See: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1105905.html
"This accusation is groundless."
Also by this time, post 1993 Oslo, Arafat was little more then a Zionist puppet the "Israelis" used against groups like Hamas.
Also even if it Arafat had been killed, it would simply be a lucky, educated guess. As Arafat had faced many assassination attempts from "Israel" in his lifetime. So much so that he told Time Magazine in a 1988 interview that he never slept in the same place two nights in a row! http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,968859,00.html
Also Libya, which Drosnin got wrong, would've been an educated guess as Libya mightve wanted wmd's to stop invasion

Brent, Ohio
March 03, 2010 11:17pm

More information refuting Drosnin on his claim on Yasser Arafat in his book "The Bible Code II" published on December 2, 2002. Drosnin claimed Yasser Arafat would allegedly be assassinated by being shot to death (i.e. with a gun) by fellow Palestinians from Hamas. Drosnin writes on page 103 of his book "The Bible Code II"; "I showed Arafat a second version of the same code table, in which the word 'terrorist' overlapped by 'Hamas' crossed his name- crossed 'shooters of Yasir Arafat.' " link here: http://books.google.com/books?id=KJAYraVzvCMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=bible+code+II&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Arafat%20Hamas&f=false

Also on his original claim to Rabin (which of course was an educated guess in that dangerous post Oslo Accords period of 1993). Drosnin states on p. 120 of his first book 1998's "The Bible Code" page 120; "Yigal Amir could not be found in advance". Meaning again Drosnin was giving NO details. Also the original "code" has the original HUGE problem for Drosnin; "For example, citing again the passage intersecting with Rabin: that passage is from Deuteronomy 4:42, but Drosnin ignores the words immediately following "a murderer who will murder." What comes next is the phrase "unwittingly" (biveli da'at). This is because the verse deals with the cities of refuge where accidental killers can find asylum. In this case, then, the message would refer to an accidental killing of (or by) Rabin and it would therefore be wrong." So again Drosnin went looking and was wrong!

Brent, Ohio
March 10, 2010 11:31am

Again Drosnin claimed in his book "The Bible Code II" (published on December 2, 2002) that Palestinian Authority leader Yasser Arafat would allegedly get assassinated by being shot to death by gunmen from the armed Palestinian group and political party Hamas. Drosnin makes this claim on pages 103 and 104 of his book "The Bible Code II"; again that Arafat would allegedly be shot to death (by Hamas gunmen). Medical records show Yasser Arafat died of natural causes (from a stroke linked to infection). http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-09-08/news/17388635_1_medical-records-percy-army-teaching-hospital-unexplained-death-last-year

The only conspiracy theories about Yasser Arafat's death, said that Arafat was allegedly killed by being poisoned on Israeli orders. The only alleged Palestinian collaboration in this poison conspiracy theory was the alleged involvement of now Palestinian Authority chief and Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas and Mohammed Dahlan the former leader of Fatah in Gaza.
http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=20846

Another good article refuting "Bible Code" myth: http://inside.mines.edu/~mmyoung/BkRevs.htm

And again: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jtigay/codetext.html
Quote- Finally, those parts of the messages produced by reading the letters of the horizontal lines in their actual sequence are not produced by equidistant letter sequences, but by arbitrari-ly selecting certain letters as part of the message and ignoring the rest.
end quote.

See Deut. 4:42 accidental!

Brent, Ohio
March 21, 2010 11:58am

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

Logic- If True Bible Codes exist, then Satan directs people away from the True Bible Codes, and thus directs them toward gibberish codes.

Folks then say that the codes that they have studied are a farce.

Folks of low intellect then conclude that all Bible Codes must therefore be a farce.

However, these very same folk spend their money to purchase items, even though it has been said that some bills are found to be counterfeit.

By their twisted logic, it must be said that if some bills are found to be counterfeit, then ALL bills are counterfeit, and that there is absolutely no reason to examine ALL other bills to prove that this is true.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

K. Sean Proudler, Toronto Canada
March 25, 2010 11:39am

You all seem to be missing the point that the words found have some relevance to the text distance it is found in.

So you don't find it amazing that in the space of only a few verses 23 trees can be found in that section that talks about the garden eastward of Eden?

I think the DNA codes are amazing, a pictorial of the scroll of life, plus all the WWII stuff all within a compact area.

The assassination of Rabin and the first gulf war had a lot of related words crisscrossing throughout the passage. It even mentions the names Peter Arnet and CNN as well as Bush and Schwarzkopf along with the war type words, Scud-b and missile will terrify and the date the first missiles hit the 3rd of Shevat.

Bill Intense, Erie PA
March 31, 2010 1:15pm

On the issue of "Shevat", did Drosnin say he looked for this and "found" it later (i.e. after the event, Saddam sending missiles at Israel during the 1st Gulf War, happened)? This is honestly just a question. As for Eliyahu Rips he simply claims he found something about the word "fire" on this date of 3rd of Shevat. First thing on this is too actually verify anything they are claiming (i.e. Drosnin and Rips claims), secondly apply the Law of Truly Large Numbers and such as they were interested in this topic from the 1st Gulf War going on in front of them at that time (1991).

As for your (Bill) claims about there allegedly being more "detail" in Drosnin's things, I simply refer you to the details in Brendan McKay's work: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

McKay also notes how Hebrew tricks and flexibility help charlatans like Drosnin: "Note that English with the vowels included is far less flexible than Hebrew when it comes to making letters into words. Nevertheless, without further ado, we present our answer to Mr Drosnin's challenge."

McKay's website shows a funny example of how flexible Hebrew spelling can be: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/abulafia.html

Finally, there are just so many holes in everything Drosnin claims. When Drosnin gets something wrong he just says "well we must have changed our future" basically he makes countless guesses and then if hes wrong he is in a no lose situation as he just claims an alleged "change" in fortune. Deut. 4:42 trick!

Brent, Ohio
March 31, 2010 4:55pm

A specific refutation of the claim raised by "Bill Intense" directly from Professor Brendan McKay: "there was a story that Israeli intelligence presented Witztum with 3 possible dates and
Witztum selected one of them. If true, that makes it much less of a
prediction. Also, remember that the USA had given Iraq a deadline to withdraw from Kuwait and attacked immediately the deadline ran out. The first scuds hit Israel just one Jewish day later. So in fact the most likely day or two was public knowledge already for weeks."

These are excellent points brought up by Professor Brendan McKay. Saddam's Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990 and was almost immediately condemned and told to withdraw from Kuwait or else the world would react (i.e. militarily). On November 29, 1990 the UN passed UN Resolution 678 which gave Saddam's Iraq until January 15, 1991 to withdraw from Kuwait or face direct action up to and including military action. The US had been in that immediate region since "Operation Desert Shield" launched on August 7, 1990 with US troops being deployed to Saudi Arabia (upon the Saudi monarch's acceptance). This "defensive" US force for Saudi, got even more ready for "offense" (i.e. war) when on August 8, 1990 Saddam's Iraq annexed Kuwait and claimed Kuwait as Iraq's historic 19th province. So again already by Nov. 29, 1990 months earlier there was date of January 15, 1991 for Iraq to withdraw. Making the amount of days a war or attack on Israel would occur a small window

Brent, Ohio
April 01, 2010 11:23am

Brent,
Your comment from Ismail Haniyah is a minority position without broad support in Hamas. You may want to read their charter and founding document at http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm. which explicitly rules out peace, and outlines their antisemitic agenda in full.

Your statement about the reason for most Palestinians rejecting the Oslo accords is factually incorrect. And your claim about "all the Palestinians got was recognition" is true if you don't consider land, money, technology, weapons, training, and the hundreds of other concessions Israel offered.

I would also like to know exactly which "far-right zionist groups" you are talking about. As far as I know, they don't exist. Amir himself was an individual, not part of an organization (as Brian implies) and while there are individuals who express the opinions you cited, they are often arrested and imprisoned for incitement and barred from running for election.

Ryan, Flushing
April 02, 2010 5:23pm

First, in response to Ryan. If you want to bring the Hamas charter I can just as easily bring claims from tons of high level Israelis and Zionists about wanting the alleged "Biblical Kingdom" from the Niles to Euphrates rivers (see this with the blue lines on the Israeli flag with the occult "Star of David" symbol, which has nothing to do with Judaism historically). As for Oslo all real sources (i.e. not far right Zionists you take from) recognize that the Occupied territories remained under complete Israeli occupation and illegal Israeli "Jewish" only settlements and arrests of tons of Palestinians (including young children) continue. What "aid" are you speaking of, certainly not the untold billions the US gives Israel yearly (the US gives more "aid" to Israel then it gives to the whole continent of Africa combined! And that is just the on the books money not what AIPAC and others get off the table and records for Israel).

Also you allege people are "imprisoned" in Israel, I'll I have to say is Avigdor Lieberman who has voiced some of the most far out ultra/extreme Zionist positions and is high up in the Israeli government!

Lastly, responding again to "Bill Intense" claims, just see UN Security Council Resolution 678 passed on November 29, 1990 which told Saddam's Iraq to withdraw from Kuwait on or before a deadline of January 15, 1991. So the dates of a war were clear, and everyone knew Iraq would attack Israel in event of war and their only method would be SCUDS.

Brent, Ohio
April 07, 2010 10:52am

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

A connection between the TORH-TORH-YHWH-HROT-HROT hidden codes that were found within the Torah, and additional hidden codes found within the New Testament of the KJV Bible, have now been expanded.

Enjoy.

K. Sean Proudler, Toronto Canada ( New Jerusalem )
April 07, 2010 11:17am

Proudler you again! Your junk (and fake "English Gematria") has been refuted a while back: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

Next, speaking again about the issues raised by "Bill Intense". I've already refuted these, but I thought it would be interesting to go a little further. Bill posts the claims about the First Persian Gulf War in 1991 made by Rips & Co. and repeated by Drosnin in his first book "The Bible Code" in 1997-1998. Again simply see United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 passed on November 29, 1990 which told Saddam's Iraq to withdraw from Kuwait either on our before a deadline of January 15, 1991 or face any means to remove them (including military action). There is no proof Rips & Co. actually found any "code" in advance. He simply claims he saw it, 3 weeks before (which wouldn't even be a prediction as again already on Nov. 29, 1990 UN Resolution 678) gave a deadline of Jan. 15, 1991 meaning a war would likely break out in the days immediately after that as Saddam's Iraq was clearly not withdrawing from Kuwait. This sounds a lot like Drosnin in his Dec. 2, 2002 second book "The Bible Code II" claiming that he allegedly saw "codes" about the 9/11 attacks "before they happened", but he allegedly just didn't understand them. This was when he was looking for a "code" way back after the first WTC bombing on Feb. 26, 1993. Drosnin plays many games that are easily refuted and his errors disprove him, 2006 end of world!

Brent, Ohio
April 08, 2010 8:21am

No one has provided any proof what so ever to support any argument against the validity of the codes that I have exposed.

Your argument only stands up as useful for those who are so stupid that they can't think for themselves, nor investigate for themselves, thus they in turn take the word of others instead.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

Enjoy.

K. Sean Proudler, Toronto Canada ( New Jerusalem )
April 08, 2010 3:01pm

Proudler, the evidence refuting has been shown long ago: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php
Just one simple fact that refutes you that I will mention is your fake creation of alleged "English Gematria". The "original" Hebrew Gematria itself is a myth and game, and your "English Gematria" is even more of a fake game. From there again Dr. Mark Chu-Carroll refuted you completely.

Also again refuting "Bill Intense" on issue of Iraq/Kuwait. Again UN Security Council Resolution 678 was passed on November 29, 1990 (long before the alleged "3 weeks in advance" Rips & co. claim). UN Resolution 678 told Saddam's Iraq they had to withdraw from their occupation of Kuwait either on or before a deadline of January 15, 1991 or face a military attack to force Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. Iraq ignored this demand, and claimed Kuwait as part of historic Iraq. As for the actual start of the 1st Gulf War, the US attacks (and i.e. the start of the war) began in Iraq on the early morning of January 17, 1991 at about 2:40am Iraq time. This time in Iraq was still the earlier day, Jan. 16, 1991, in the US. It was Jan. 16, 1991 at 6:40pm US EST time when the 1st Gulf War started. It obviously would take 1 day to prepare for war and then start the attack. Iraq had long stated they would retaliate to any US invasion by attacking Israel. Iraqi Scuds hit Israel the next day at 0300 in the morning Israel time. Scuds were the clear method before.

Brent, Ohio
April 09, 2010 12:44pm

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

The connection between the TORH-TORH-YHWH-HROT-HROT hidden codes that were found within the Torah, and the additional hidden codes found within the New Testament of the KJV Bible, have now been expanded even further.

Meanwhile, anyone out there, other than Brent, please do go ahead and study the Mark Chu-Carroll science web page recommended by Brent.

http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

Examine Mark Chu-Carroll's perfection in mathematics, thus his perfection in working with numbers.

For instance he states, "Take something substantial like the complete new testament, and you've got something in the vicinity of 4 million characters - and that's plenty of room for searching. You can find pretty much anything you want.", even though in truth the number of characters is actually 739166, NOT 4 MILLION!

Instead, overall he presented nothing but a weak case of humorous sophism, and so much so that in many cases he is actually supporting, rather than refuting.

Let it also be noted that the expected mathematical statistics analysis of these Bible Codes, that would have been used to back his argument, was NOT attempted nor performed by Mr. Mark Chu-Carroll's nor anyone else, thus in turn his arguments were nothing but opinion based, and thus in no way at all do they have a scientific foundation.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

K. Sean Proudler, Toronto Canada ( New Jerusalem )
April 11, 2010 4:36pm

Proudler you and your fake English "gematria" have been refuted: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

On another topic, as shown long ago by academics like Brendan McKay & Co. that these so-called "Bible Codes" can be found in any book of equivalent or comparable length to the Hebrew "Old Testament". Brendan McKay (http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/) showed some of these Codes in English book "Moby-Dick" (aka "The Whale") published in 1851 written by author Herman Melville (who lived from 1819-1891)
http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

Brendan McKay also points out that; "Note that English with the vowels included is far less flexible than Hebrew when it comes to making letters into words. Nevertheless, without further ado, we present our answer to Mr Drosnin's challenge."
McKay then shows all the Codes in Melville's 1851 "Moby Dick" speaking of later assassinations with many details, these people include:
Prime Minister Indira Gandhi of India killed in 1984, President Rene Moawad of Lebanon killed in 1989, Leon Trotsky killed in 1940, Austrian Chancellor Engelbert Dollfuss killed in 1934, Sirhan Sirhan killing RFK in 1968, Martin Luther King Jr. killed in 1968, John F. Kennedy killed in 1963, Abraham Lincoln killed in 1865, and even Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin killed on November 4, 1995. McKay actually gives details from Moby Dick, whereas Drosnin saw Rabin was under threat in Oslo era and used Deut. 4:42 speaking of accidental

Brent, Ohio
April 23, 2010 7:25pm

Brent, your claim about the blue lines referring to "from the Nile to the Euphrates" is an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory with no basis in reality, certainly not from "tons of Israeli's and Zionists" unless you spend your time reading sites that promote the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as fact. Nor is it relevant to a charter which is the ideological basis for Hamas and clearly spells out the goals of the organization as a whole.

As far as "all real sources" are concerned, I suppose by "real" you are eliminating the 95% that disagree with your flawed assessment, nor do I see how how arresting children (children who commit crimes are arrested in Israel like in every other country in the world), US aid to Israel or AIPAC are entirely irrelevant to the billions of dollars in aid the US, EU and Israel give and continue to give to Palestinians.

Citing Avigdor Lieberman is also irrelevant because just as in the US, people in Israel have the right to say what they want, though they are forbidden from making threats against individuals and certainly not against the prime minister which is what Brian alleges.

Ryan, Flushing
May 05, 2010 5:29am

Ryan then what does the Israeli flag mean? Even if you put aside the Nile to Euphrates; the early Zionist figures like David Ben-Gurion made it clear they did not want set borders and desired an alleged "Biblical Israel" (as if that ever existed outside the fiction fairy tale book called "The Bible" lol with the "Tower of Babel" going into heaven, talking snakes and all other absurdities!). The original map Ben-Gurion used even included Damascus, Syria as part of the alleged "Jewish state"! This is confirmed in the work of Israeli historian (and staunch Zionist) Shabtai Teveth in his "Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs: From War to Peace": "It is unthinkable that the Jewish state, in our day and age, could include the city of Damascus. . . . This is a large Arab city, and one of the four centers of Islam. The Jewish community there is small. The Arabs will never allow Damascus, their pride, to come under Jewish control, and there can be no doubt that the English, even were it in their power, would agree to such a thing." (Shabtai Teveth, p. 34)

As to administrative detention and mistreatment of Palestinian children I will take the word of acclaimed international human rights groups like Amnesty Internationl, Human Rights Watch, and others over an apparent right wing Zionist like you! http://www.btselem.org/English/Administrative_Detention/

The US gives more to Israel then it gives to all of sub-Saharan Africa combined! Other then that the US arms pro-Israel puppets.

Brent, Ohio
May 06, 2010 12:05pm

Brent,

Israel's flag symbolizes the tallit prayer shawl, so yes you can put aside the antisemitic propaganda.

How could David Ben-Gurion have desired a biblical Israel if he objected to including Damascus?

Max, Boston, MA
May 06, 2010 2:54pm

Max, David Ben-Gurion desired Damascus that is why he included it in his original map. The quote was from the work of later (modern day) Israeli historian (and staunch Zionist) Shabtai Teveth who was speaking in a refuting tone about the earlier wild plans and wishes of Ben-Gurion and his early Zionist company (which used a map that included Damascus, Syria in it as part of the alleged "Jewish state" they wanted). Teveth was again just showing this wasn't possible as a historian looking back. There are many other Zionist quotes stating that they will not set borders as they want a "kingdom" on both sides of the Jordan and such. From Ze'ev Jabotinsky who was a Revisionist Zionist; stated the following: "I devote my life to the rebirth of the Jewish State, with a Jewish majority, on both sides of the Jordan." (From Zionist writer Martin Gilbert's book "Israel: A History", p. 76) This would've included Jordan (or what was then Transjordan controlled by the colonial British.

Also again refuting "Bill Intense" guy from earlier. I've already shown that United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 was passed on Nov. 29, 1990 and gave Saddam's Iraq until a final deadline of Jan. 15, 1991 to withdraw from Kuwait or face attack (this was after months of sanctions following Iraq's invasion of Kuwait on Aug. 2, 1990). Also Iraq had warned long before they would attack Israel if the US invaded or attacked Iraq. In April 1990 Saddam threatened in case of war he'd burn half of Israel

Brent, Ohio
May 06, 2010 7:19pm

Brent, I think you got the Damascus thing 100% backwards. I suspect that your quote was Ben-Gurion explaining why Damascus should NOT be included. It sounds like someone looking forward, not backward ("Arabs will never allow Damascus, their pride, to come under Jewish control...").

Jabotinsky certainly wanted Israel to include the entire British Mandate, which included Transjordan, but not the French Mandate of Syria.

Max, Boston, MA
May 07, 2010 12:22am

Max, no the quote was from the work of Israeli (and pro-Zionist) historian Shabtai Teveth. The quote is Teveth speaking, as a historian in the future, about how unrealistic the plans (in the form of the original Zionist "map", they wanted) of the early Zionists that included the city of Damascus, Syria in the envisioned "Jewish state" the Zionists wanted.

Also going back to the "Bill Intense" person who presented what where some "new" claims. I've shown (even with reply from Brendan McKay) that the alleged (cannot even be verified to start with!) claim of Witztum and Rips (repeated by liar Drosnin) to have "predicted" Saddam Hussein's missile strikes on Israel during the First Gulf War are bunk and easily come from an educated guess given the situation of that time. I showed from United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 passed on Nov. 29, 1990 that Iraq had been given a deadline of Jan. 15, 1991 to withdraw from Kuwait and hen they didn't they were attacked the very next day and Iraq responded (as threatened) by striking Israel one day later with the known only method they had their Al-Hussein ballistic missiles. Also note from CBS; "Israel first began distributing gas masks to its citizens in the months leading up to the 1991 war, following threats by Saddam to attack Israel with chemical weapons."

It was well known that Saddam said he would strike Israel if the US attacked in 1991. Again the only method was his Al-Hussein missiles upgraded versions of Soviet SCUD.

Brent, Ohio
May 12, 2010 11:15am

Brent,

Everything about that quote suggests to me that it's Ben-Gurion speaking. It sounds like something Ben-Gurion would say, it's looking at the future and not the past, it's too early in the book (page 34) for the historian to be passing judgement. Oh, and I suspect that you found the quote on PalestineRemembered.com, and even they say that it's Ben-Gurion rationalizing his decision to limit Israel's borders 20 km south of Damascus.

What's your evidence that it's Teveth speaking?

Max, Boston, MA
May 12, 2010 2:37pm

Max, the quote is from the writing of Teveth and it is Teveth analyzing as a historian looking back at the past and saying that Ben-Gurion & Co. original colonial aspirations were too far out to become reality. Thus Teveth is saying as the historical analysis, that the Zionist movement could never have controlled as much territory as they original declared they wanted: all of Transjordan (today's Jordan), to the city of Damascus, etc. The quote from Teveth is not from Ben-Gurion it is again Teveth words as he does historical analysis of the early Zionist movement, read the book.

Also again continuing to refute "Bill Intense" claims on Iraq. A good link: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1914&dat=19910112&id=5QwgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=i2UFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5035,2550344
Article from Jan. 15, 1991 in a US newspaper (from the state of Maine) showing how the US government was saying that UN Security Council Resolution 678 (passed on Nov. 29, 1990) was going to expire when Jan. 15, 1991 ended in US EST time. The US attacked Saddam's Iraq the next day at about 6:40 US EST time on what was still Jan. 16, 1991 in the US. And then Iraq (as long threatened) shot missiles at "Israel" the very next day Jan. 17, 1991 (again in US EST time and date). Brendan McKay shows Witztum & co. as liars; McKay writes on Witztum & co. "Doron Witztum is not a scientist. ...
He does not deserve the respect of real scientists, nor any presumption of integrity." From Brendan McKay website. Law of Truly Large #s

Brent, Ohio
May 23, 2010 4:16pm

Brent, where's the evidence that the quote is Teveth speaking and not Ben-Gurion? Can you post the whole quote in context?

Max, Boston, MA
May 23, 2010 9:55pm

Max, I apologize I misread the source and admit my error on citing. Ben-Gurion, as WWI was ending, wanted land up to 20km south of Damascus; "As WWI was ending, Ben-Gurion went on to draw a map of the "Jewish state" to be. This map clearly excluded Damascus (although it was part of Biblical "Eretz Yisrael"), and limited the "Jewish state's" future northern borders to 20 km south of the Syrian Capital. He rationalized this decision as follows"

Also again refuting "Bill Intense" person. Among all the similar type of "codes" that Brendan McKay found in "Moby Dick", "War & Peace", etc. McKay also found some in the entire back catalog of lyrics of 1990s rapper Vanilla Ice! http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/back+catalog
He went looking and found codes in Vanilla Ice's lyrics about the September 11, 2001 attacks. What he found in Vanilla Ice's lyrics was "New York" and "Terrorist", "Twin Towers", "Nine Eleven" (i.e. the date!), "you came in the sky", and "Osama bin Laden"! This was done on the Australian show "John Safran vs. God" back around 2004-2005: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyNi7bYt0v0 (The exact part with Vanilla Ice's back catalog of lyrics and the 9/11 attacks starts at around 1:56 in the video). McKay shows the results and you can see the codes! If you search the actual lines you can see they are for sure Vanilla Ice's lyrics; and Professor McKay says he used the same method as the "Bible code" frauds! And this is in English which is less flexible then Hebrew!

Brent, Ohio
June 02, 2010 11:12am

One huge point I forgot to post was from one of the works of Professor Brendan McKay & co. This is a code related to the Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet that hit Jupiter on July 19-20, 1994 (that astronomers had .
From: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/comet.html
McKay writes concerning the Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet; "By way of comparison, the date of collision (though not the certainty of it) was precisely determined by astronomers already by mid-1993 and successively refined during the following months. By January 1994, it was known to within 10 minutes.
...
Drosnin got the date wrong...
The Jewish date 8th of Av in that year began at sunset on July 15 and ended at the following sunset. However, in Israel where the Book of Isaiah was written, the collision occurred very late on the 16th, making it the 9th of Av.
...
but War and Peace got it right!
The date was also the 9th of Av where War and Peace was written, as well as where it was translated into Hebrew. The following portion of the Hebrew translation of War and Peace shows the right date, as well as much supporting evidence."
Some of this great evidence Brendan McKay got in the Hebrew translation of "War & Peace" code; were the phrases "on the 9th of Av" and "the year 5754
...
The key features "a comet will fall", "on the 9th of Av" and "heavenly body strikes" have skip which is minimal in the first 78064 letters of War and Peace (the length of Genesis).

Hebrew "War & Peace": http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/data/WNP.txt

Brent, Ohio
June 03, 2010 9:14am

Time passes, and the codes still stand true !

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

K. Sean Proudler, Toronto Canada
July 08, 2010 8:39am

Proudler your so pathetic lol; again your idiotic garbage was refuted a long time ago! http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/04/yet_another_bible_code_bozo.php

I'm assuming your still attempting to peddle your fake English "gematria"; so let us just read a little of Dr. Mark Chu-Carroll's thorough debunking of you and your lies; "In more modern times, tons of crackpots have latched on to gematria. Only instead of learning hebrew, they just create numerical mappings for english letters, and then do it in english.
...
What are some of his results? He wants to search for the answer "What is the mark of christ?". He pulls out first the word "mark" - that's going to be what he searches for. Then he takes the word "christ", and uses it to set the skip distances to search, using its numerical value of 462. But since he needs a range of search distances, he arbitrarily decides to add 1000 to it, and searches for references to "mark", using skip distances ranging from 462 to 1462. Why those numbers? Why 1462 instead of 2462, or 10462? Because 1462 is the one that works. Using that, the number of matches for "mark" is 462.
...
He plays with all sorts of similarly stupid stuff. Because of the way that he uses both wrapping, and ranges of skip codes, he's gotten even sillier than the usual bible code stuff. If you can pick any range of skip distances, and any search string, you can come up with pretty much any answer you want."

Again you and your fake English "gematria" can shove it!

Brent, Ohio
July 12, 2010 8:24pm

Irregardless of whether the bible code is real or not, if it brings you closer to reading the bible, then that may be the whole point of the debate. I believe Jesus is the messiah, and some of the codes found in the Torah do indicate that Jesus is the messiah, which readers of the Torah doubt that Jesus is the messiah, so hopefully that will bring them to believe the truth. If you want to know the truth, pray for it. God bless you all.

Lee, Vol Country
July 25, 2010 9:37am

There is an even more hilarious possibility with the Yitzhak code:

"Yitzhak Rabin will assassinate assassin"

Iain, Christchurch, New Zealand
July 27, 2010 3:40pm

Lee, if you believe in Christianity that's cool but you shouldn't believe in it because of the fake "Bible codes". The issue of the "Bible codes" has been thoroughly analyzed, critique, and refuted.

Bretn, Ohio
July 29, 2010 7:48pm

The bigger a truth, the more a "BELIEVER" sees it to be nothing but a lie if it is encountered directly in the here and now.

That is what happens if you place the value of beliefs above and beyond the value of truth.

The practice of sticking to beliefs, rather than approach the truth, leads to error.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

KSean Proudler, Toronto Canada
August 04, 2010 8:52am

Since this was on horizon years ago I have had fun trying to spot hidden messages in almost any book I read and in those alphabet sudoku puzzles.

Some results are just fun. Give it a go if you can't sleep at night. Works in almost any block of text.

Tom H, Kent, UK
August 19, 2010 10:18pm

Remember someone debunking this Bible code thing when it was a little more "novel." Late '90s I think. He ran the software on "Moby Dick," and, lo, it turns out Melville encoded a prediction that President Kennedy would be assassinated. There were other, equally amazing "predictions" which I forget and am too lazy to google. Suffice to say, the world is a truly strange place.

Barton Spring, Austin, Tx
August 25, 2010 6:03pm