Support Your Local Reptoid

What started the conspiracy theory that reptilian beings control our governments?

Skeptoid #46
May 21, 2007
Podcast transcript | Listen | Subscribe

Collect your children and run for cover. Today we're going to look at the terrifying tale that says a race of tall reptilian beings lives among us, and even runs our government.

The concept of reptilian beings on Earth is a surprisingly widespread conspiracy theory, in which the US government and major public companies are complicit in a vast worldwide network of underground bases housing a large population of humanoid reptilian creatures called Reptoids. They speak English and are involved in every major government and corporate decision. They are variously said to either disguise themselves or actually shape-shift into humans, where they have public lives in positions of national importance. Some say the Reptoids are of extraterrestrial origin, and some say they are native to Earth, having developed intelligence before the primates, and have been secretly running things all along.

I first heard of reptilians when planning a trip to Mt. Shasta as a youth. Shasta is one of our fourteeners here in California. As I discovered, it's also something of a sacred hotbed for a whole range of New Age traditions. It not only has a lot of Native American spiritual history, it also figures prominently for any number of modern pagan religions. Shasta is said to be full of secret caverns, jewel encrusted tunnels, and whole subterranean civilizations peopled with all sorts of exotic races. Most notably, it's the home of the Lemurians, an ancient race whose original continent called Mu sank and now make their home inside the mountain, in the great five-level city of Telos. Lemurians, who are tall, white-cloaked beings speaking English but with a British accent, employ invisible four-foot-tall beings called Guardians to protect their city. Bigfoots are also said to populate Shasta. Among all this exotic company, Reptoids would hardly be noticed. The story goes that Reptoids use Mt. Shasta as one of the numerous entrances to their huge underground network of bases.

Reptoids are said to serve at least one very useful purpose: They are sworn enemies of the gray aliens, and may well serve to be humanity's last line of defense against this threat. Among the gray aliens' holdings provided them by the US government is a large underground base at Dulce, New Mexico. Some 18,000 grays are said to reside on level 5 of the base, and they perform terrible genetic experiments on humans on levels 6 and 7. Reptilian beings have been caught trying to acquire information about the Dulce base.

The most outspoken proponent of the conspiracy theory that reptilian beings in disguise are actually running our planet is David Icke, whose book "The Biggest Secret" reveals information like this:

Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled slave of the United States government for more than 25 years... She was sexually abused as a child and as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a pedophile and serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter, Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch.

This is a fair sample of most of Icke's evidence that reptilian beings have taken over our government. Virtually any statement that Icke makes is easily falsified by minimal research if not simple common sense, but since his is a conspiracy theory, any evidence against it is simply regarded as evidence proving the conspiracy. Don't laugh: Icke sells a lot of these books. A lot of people believe this stuff.

Where did all of these stories come from? The earliest reference I've come across is from a Los Angeles Times news story from January 29, 1934, which is available from the Los Angeles Times archives. Geophysical mining engineer G. Warren Shufelt had been using "radio x-ray" and had discovered subterranean labyrinths beneath the city of Los Angeles, including pockets of pure gold, and taken x-ray pictures of many of the chambers. Somehow Shufelt met with a man named L. Macklin, said to go by the Hopi Indian name of Little Chief Greenleaf. Macklin told Shufelt of a Hopi legend of Lizard People, an advanced race, who built the city beneath Los Angeles to escape surface catastrophes some 5000 years ago. Their history was kept on gold tablets. It sounded like Shufelt had struck paydirt — almost. He still had to dig it up. Shufelt's crew dug a shaft 250 feet deep, well below the water table, which of course promptly filled with water, and that's where the story came to an end.

So I began looking into the various elements from the LA Times story. First on the list was Shufelt's "radio x-ray" device. Times reporter Jean Bosquet described it:

Shufelt's radio device consists chiefly of a cylindrical glass case inside which a plummet attached to a copper wire held by the engineer sways continually, pointing, he asserts, toward minerals or tunnels below the surface of the ground, and then revolves when over the mineral or swings in prolongation of the tunnel when above the excavation.

Shufelt's map of the Lizard People's city - derived entirely from his dowsing pendulum
© Los Angeles Times

So, it turns out, Shufelt's device has little to do with either radio or x-rays and more to do with a common dowsing pendulum. This was all he had to guide his elaborate drawing of the catacomb layout, which you can see online at Skeptoid.com, along with a picture of Shufelt using his dowsing pendulum.

Shufelt stated he has taken "x-ray pictures" of thirty seven such tablets, three of which have their southwest corners cut off. "My radio x-ray pictures of tunnels and rooms, which are subsurface voids, and of gold pictures with perfect corners, sides and ends, are scientific proof of their existence," Shufelt said.

Shufelt's dowsing results notwithstanding, parts of the story seem unlikely. Gold, and metallurgy in general, was unknown among the Hopi until the mid 1700's. So was chemistry, but Macklin said that the Lizard People "perfected a chemical solution by which they bored underground without removing earth and rock."

I did make a pretty thorough effort to track down any such Hopi legend, but came up empty handed, not counting numerous modern references to Mt. Shasta and the Los Angeles catacomb story. I did find a "Lizard clan" referenced in several Hopi stories, but always among other clans (the Spider clan, the Bear clan), and never any references to underground cities, golden tablets, or any other elements from Shufelt's story. Obviously, my failure to find any evidence of such a legend doesn't prove anything: Native American legends were traditionally passed by word of mouth and never were written down, the only exceptions being those that made it into modern storybook collections. I was also unable to find a man named either L. Macklin or Little Chief Greenleaf in the public birth and death certificate databases for the Hopi Reservation in the Navajo Nation Court, but again, all this proves is that I didn't find it.

If Shufelt's dowsing misadventures truly were the genesis of modern Reptoid legends, there is an ironic aspect. Macklin never said that there was anything reptilian about the Lizard clan, they were simply one subculture of the Hopi, though just as human as anyone else. According to the story Macklin told Shufelt:

The Lizard People, the legend has it, regarded the lizard as the symbol of long life. Their city is laid out like a lizard, according to the legend, its tail to the southwest ... its head to the northeast.

Most likely, this tall tale from the early days of Los Angeles was little more than an effort by Shufelt to interest investors in his treasure hunt, in which he no doubt believed wholeheartedly. As for Macklin? Who knows, Shufelt could have made him up, or he could have been a real guy, possibly even a real Hopi, and may have even told a genuine — if undocumented — Hopi legend. What Shufelt didn't know was that his little gem in the Los Angeles Times was the kickoff for a whole generation of one of our most bizarre (and entertaining) urban legends.

You should follow me on twitter here.

Brian Dunning

References & Further Reading

Bosquet, Jean. "Lizard Peolpe's [sic] Catacomb City Hunted." Los Angeles Times. 29 Jan. 1934, Volume 53: 1, 5.

Icke, David. The Biggest Secret: The Book That Will Change the World (Updated Second Edition). Ryde, Isle of Wight: David Icke Books, 1999.

Lewis, Tyson, Kahn, Richard. "The reptoid hypothesis: utopian and dystopian representational motifs in David Icke's alien conspiracy theory." Utopian Studies. 1 Jan. 2005, Volume 16, Number 2: 45-74.

Rhodes, John. "Reptoids Research Center." Reptoids Research Center. The Reptoids Research Center, 31 Dec. 0001. Web. 14 Nov. 2009. <http://www.reptoids.com>

Walton, Bruce. Mount Shasta, Home of the Ancients. Pomeroy: Health Research, 1985.

Reference this article:
Dunning, Brian. "Support Your Local Reptoid." Skeptoid Podcast. Skeptoid Media, Inc., 21 May 2007. Web. 6 Sep 2010. <http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4046>

Discuss!

Remember, you should always read with skepticism the comments of anyone too lame to put their real name & city.

I have never heard of such a thing. I am always amazed by such tales and urban myths. Have you ever dedicated a show to the genesis (no pun intended) of urban myths in fundamentalist Christian groups? My favorite is "the beast" which is a giant super-computer sometimes located in Belgium that tracks people using a computer chip inserted in either the right hand or forehead.

Keep up the good work!

Safari Bob, Lubbock TX
May 21, 2007 12:02pm

This is very interesting in light of Richard Shaver's "Shaver Mystery" accounts of underground cities published in Amazing in the 1940s. Any connection there? Shaver was from Pennsylvania, as far as I know.

Cambias, Amherst, MA
May 21, 2007 2:29pm

Funny podcast this week!

A couple of points:

1. It's David Icke, the "I" is pronounced like "eye", so his name rhymes with "bike". He's a former UK athlete, that became a TV sports presenter, and then lost his grip on reality in the 80s.

2. Underground races possibly caught the imagination around Victorian times. "The Coming Race" by Sir Edward Bulwer-Lytton features an advanced subterranean race. It's been a long time since I read it, but I'm pretty sure they weren't lizard types.

Tony, Tampa
May 22, 2007 11:07am

I believe it all! The reptoids are everywhere! I'm leaving earth for the planet Vulcan so that I can get away from these reptoids. I have learned how to transmigrate using the Vulcan mind-meld technique, taught to me by none other than Leonard Nimoy--who really is the Vulcan, Spock! Good bye to all.

Barry, USA
May 24, 2007 9:58am

One thing you don't point out is that David Icke is kind of entertaining... The video with him starting outside the bank of london and ending with the interview with Arizona Wilder (Biggest Secrets?) is pretty damn fun to watch in a sci-fi kind of way. And Wilder hardly blinks during the interview (as i recall)

Tom Truth, 23 degrees off center
May 24, 2007 12:41pm

We,.. I mean THEY don't exist.

Robert "Snake" Myers, Bixby, OK
May 24, 2007 3:07pm

I think most of the so called conspiracy theories are figment of imagination.

Ashwin, India
May 25, 2007 3:58am

I'm so happy to have people to tell me what and who to believe without having to think for myself...it makes me feel superior and confident to boldly dismiss the ideas of others out of hand. because i would not want to accept something on the basis of no proof....wait a minute...you do have the ability to verify what YOU claim don't you?

Tamara, weathertop Farm
May 25, 2007 6:30am

Get a clue, Tamara.

Extraordinary claims that stretch the limits of imagination should at least have some evidence to support them if they are to be believed.

As this article points out, there is NO evidence of a Reptoid presence (on earth or anywhere else). The author has taken pains to research the claims.

And yet you still demand to see proof of the negative.

Instead of lambasting the author, why not come up with proof?

The answer is: you can't.

Assman, New York, NY
May 25, 2007 7:04am

In all the vastness of possibillities in the universe, can't no one imagine a family (mum, dad, daughter/son and his/her partner and maybe child) found earth as a nice place for a vacation, but lets also say that maybe their skin can't take as much uv rays from the sun as ours can. So they build a nice wee holiday home in a cave (maybe their home planet is mostly dark). Or one of them is met by a group of strange looking creatures (man) and is maybe carrying some alien type of cell phone and is treated as a god. Maybe also there is a law which states that no race of beings may interfere with the maturation or evolution of another lesser advanced group of beings.
So they hide out but at the same time keep a watchful eye on our advances and makes sure we are not going to be led into a "dead parrot" type deal with some group of aliens who seek to rule us etc.

Bobby, Glasgow, Scotland (NOT BRITAIN)
May 25, 2007 7:41am

Let me see, an entire race of reptiles that do not need the sun to survive. They are bipedal, eat, sleep and act like us. Apparently are able to mimick us like chameleons. Reptiles that do not need the sun to survive, since they live underground.
I'm sorry, did I miss anything? In 73 years that we have known about this "Advanced Race", they have not taken advantage of our penchant to create a greenhouse out of this earth? If they were here as long as the Hopi people remember would they have not over run our world or made themselves known in order to form an alliance to beat the Greys even if they had a different agenda?
And most of all, is Tamara of Weathertop Farm's last name Shufelt, Macklin or Greenleaf? Don't miss the next chapter where Billy Batsson says the magic words that will save our world...

Next episode: Conspiracy Theory or The Sky Is Falling, Does This Prove Chicken Little Was Right?

Luis, Goose Creek, SC
May 25, 2007 9:53am

Well written article.

I have had the pleasure of being in the presence of a man called Terry Walter and Ken Seddington (or Sedd), who is president of the UFO world congress (or was at the time). Both nice guys, extraordinary stories, but virtually no evidence whatsoever. Loads of photos he has taken while in space on board their ship, that sort of thing, but no pictures of aliens.

Not reptilian stories but nordic alien ones. All the of the evidence was unsubstantiated and unverifiable.

And its important to note that they were paid for their visit.

Tamara: evidence is what separates fact from myth. It is the reponsibility of those making the unsubstantiated claims to provide evidence. If someone (even a critic/skeptic) cant find any evidence, it invalidates the postulation, until such time as evidence CAN be found. Not the other way around.

Normally a scientist would provide proof along with their postulation. It tends to lend confidence to proceedings.

Jon, Byfleet UK
May 28, 2007 2:36am

A corker....In order!...

"And Wilder hardly blinks during the interview (as i recall)"

Tom Truth, 23 degrees off center
May 24, 2007 12:41pm

~~Well then he can't be a reptile as they blink all the time!~~

NEXT....

Bobby, Glasgow, Scotland (NOT BRITAIN)
May 25, 2007 7:41am

Good luck with the New Independent Republic of Scotland, Bobby...But bearing in mind that the last 3 Prime Ministers of UK have all been Scots...What's the diff.?

And finally...

"In 73 years that we have known about this "Advanced Race", they have not taken advantage of our penchant to create a greenhouse out of this earth?"

I agree totally with this reason for global warming {it's as good if not better than all the other fairy stories!}...obviously these reptiles have been waiting for the temp. to rise a take control... run for the hills!

Don't forget your SUV's !

Griff...Or Surreal Neil... to my colleagues.

neil griffiths, Cardiff uk
May 29, 2007 5:21pm

Good episode.

It really brought back memories of that old TV series "V"

Jacob, Chicago
June 01, 2007 8:46pm

This was pretty funny. And I have to say, I loved the title of the episode.
Reminds me of all that crazy Scientology stuff used to hear about in LA

Sciluv, Toronto
June 14, 2007 5:41am

It's all a cover story cooked up by Jim Morrison.

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabor Plain,Australia
July 03, 2007 8:22pm

Hi,

I enjoyed reading your article on the reptiloids. However I think you got one piece wrong. The part about the Grey's being the bad aliens and the Reptiloids being the Good savioirs - actually its backwards.

The Reptiloids are the ruling class and control the Greys. Both are evil and malavolent. Both view humans as food.

Aoleon The Martian Girl, Martian Megalopolis - Olympus Mons Mars
July 13, 2007 7:54am

death to all aliens. here is some improtant info from a south african shaman on these evil shapeshifting sons of bytches
http://www.sabon.org/credo/index2.html

juggalo, detroit
July 30, 2007 9:39am

Obvious most have no knowledge on this subject. This guy is probably paid by the Government to do this. You want some serious info on this, Go here

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/conspire.htm

Brian, Glasgow, Kentucky
September 06, 2007 2:40pm

Why do Hollywoood movies always portray "the d-Evil" with blonde hair/blue eyes and a British accent? Because that is the proverbial missing link. The three races of man evolved from the three species of ape only after our R-brain (reptilian brain) was introduced into our DNA. ...also, check out Branton Files http://www.greatdreams.com/reptilian-humanoids.htm

Bummer, Irving
September 08, 2007 12:59am

I have experienced several incidences with the Reptoid race.

Cindy Sloan, Tennessee
September 10, 2007 12:58pm

"http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/conspire.htm"

Funniest.Site.Ever.

I have to believe that 90% of it is a joke.

I mean there really aren't people who actually believe this hogwash?

Michael Moran, Houghton,MI
October 10, 2007 5:50pm

Hi Group,
Reptoids really do exist. I wrote a book about them and named them Repto Sapiens. The book is being made into a motion picture by a major movie studio right now. There is a lot of information about the subjects covered in the book on my website. I also went through 125 posts in the JREF Forum going into great detail against the skeptic horde. That thread starts at:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=41514

Dr. Jack Sarfatti the famous theoretical physicist posted there too backing me up.
Art
My Website: http://antigray.tripod.com/
Check out all the pages on the site. I wrote it like a tabloid newspaper so that I could impress on readers an outline of what has been going on throughout history.

The publisher's website to order my book is at:
http://www.booklocker.com/books/1417.html

Synopsis:
WARNING reveals a frightening alien agenda, a long-term program of
social domination and periodic controlled genocide. Mankind is now in
great danger. We have a terrible problem to overcome. Resolution
requires international solidarity, then forcible negotiation with the
aliens.

Copy of Book Cover:
http://www.booksamillion.com/bam/covers/1/59/113/358/1591133580.jpg

"Warning" by Art Greenfield
ISBN: 1-59113-358-0
Copyright © 2005 by Art Greenfield

Barnes & Noble:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=warning+by+art+greenfield&userid=2ZUPHEORHH&cds2Pid=946

Booksamillion:
http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=2782892733325&pid=159113358

Art Greenfield, Cocoa, Florida
December 02, 2007 4:40pm

I know people who firmly believe this... They also believe that reptilians feed on human infants and much of U.S. government is comprised of reptilians. Now, the fact that George Bush eats babies is actually more believable than the whole thing. The evidence is captured here: http://www.looptvandfilm.com/blog/bush-eats-baby-small.jpg

Jenya Y, Caldwell, Idaho
December 16, 2007 9:29pm

Hi all. Sorry, but I am keeping my skeptical attitude vs all this reptilian non-sense. And the Art Greenfield, your wife was abducted? She probably just left you for being a psycho-ranting nut-job.
You people need help and a real life. If not for the CSI episode 22, season 7, "Leapin' Lizards", noone would have heard about your looney club :)
Enjoy further paranoia and dilusional psychosis.

Henrik, Copenhagen, Denmark
February 14, 2008 4:45am

The Lizard People, the legend has it, regarded the lizard as the symbol of long life. Their city is laid out like a lizard, according to the legend, its tail to the southwest ... its head to the northeast.

http://www.wiolawapress.com/inca.htm

hey you guys have to figure it out by research. Find out the truth by yourself.

Raz

Raz, cant tell,dont ask
March 19, 2008 3:16am

Anyone who concludes their sig with "Raz, cant tell,dont ask" is pretty obviously a paranoid nutjob. Are you really such an egomaniac that you think anyone cares enough to come looking for you? Right, the men in black are outside your door...

One would think the anti-spam method below- that of having to add two numbers together- would filter out the whack-jobs who seem to get 395,003 out of 1+1, but they keep posting anyway...

eric thorn, Seoul, ROK
June 22, 2008 2:43am

@ Art....

Yes, I read several pages of it, until my eyes started to cross.

It was a hard read. Because everytime someone asked you to substantiate your claims, you posted *enormous* blocks of unrelated drivel.

Oh yes, and constant exortations to buy your book.

All I can say about that is ... thank god there is a 1500 character limit in this forum.

I understand why now.

Brenton, New Zealand
August 20, 2008 4:16pm

You silly humans. I will freely admit in this post that we are real, and are taking over your planet. Bush, McCain, and Obama are all working for us. And you know what the best part is? There isn't a damn thing any of you can do about it!

That's right, I can freely announce my existence, and yet if you try to use this message as proof that Reptoids exist, people will mock you, saying the message is an obvious hoax.

Raz, you needn't hide your identity from us. We have conditioned the vast majority of your planet's population to ridicule such notions, because we get a kick out of watching guys like you struggle in vain to convince the rest of the sheeple that we are a real threat. But don't worry, your futile efforts will soon come to an end.

Your New Overlord, Alpha Draconis
August 26, 2008 4:40pm

my dentist is a reptilian

Jon, Canberra
August 27, 2008 12:14am

Hey! Art didn't come back.

Maybe the reptoids have

Brenton, New Zealand
September 03, 2008 1:25pm

I think you went too far back to try to trace this to 1934. Most likely, Icke's ideas come from the TV series "V" from the 1980s. In that show, aliens come to Earth, claim to help us, end up getting political power, but they turn out to be humanoid lizards that eat humans.

Icke seems to do this a lot. I heard that a few years ago he started talking about some interconnected aspect of reality being driven by consciousness and called...The Matrix. He seems to take paranoia-themed entertainment as fact.

Paul, Walnut Creek, CA
September 21, 2008 5:26pm

Lots of information about reptoids can be found here and they're not really something to just dismiss off hand!

http://www.freewebs.com/reptoids

Bernstien, Birmingham
November 25, 2008 1:37am

Brian,

This has to be one of my favorite episodes thus far, if for no other reason than the fact that you actually reveal the origin of this (rather unusual!) conspiracy theory.

I love, too, that so many people who actually believe in this stuff have posted on this thread. It's fascinating to see the conspiracy theorists coming out of the woodwork to tell you that you're wrong. I suppose they're just trying to be helpful...

As for those of you who believe in Reptoids, I have a simple question. If the Reptoids are only concerned with using us for food, why do they let so many of us go to waste? (Let alone the thousands of dogs and cats killed needlessly every week which are surely just as good of eating.) Don't such advanced creatures have a waste-not, want-not philosophy?

SeanJJordan, St. Louis
November 27, 2008 6:48pm

A bit off-topic maybe, but my mum was a teacher in the UK and she taught David Icke's son for a year. The kid was a nice lad, apparently, but Icke himself was a pain at parent/teacher meetings and the like. I know my mum is NOT a shape-shifting human-eating lizard either.

He was a professional football* player as well. Goalkeeper. Strange...

*Soccer, if you must.

Nick D, Birmingham UK
December 30, 2008 6:30pm

I witnessed firsthand several rock-art petroglyphs in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico. I had already heard of reptilians from contactees such as Alex Collier.. but until I saw the ancient rock art depicting a lizard-like humanoid, that's when I knew this stuff was for real. after that experience i realized at once, all of the serpent races we hear of in stories of the mayans and egyptians.. they are still here!

a navajo shaman who was a friend of my ex-girl friend at the time confided into her what the petroglyphs meant, and refered to a lizard-like "shapeshifter" who controlled all of the natives in Chaco Canyon and kept them divided and at war amongst eachother. excavators found dozens of skeletons with crushed skulls, which suggests ritual sacrifice was taking place.

sounds a lot like the modern conspiracy theory, these entities are secretive and hunger for power by any means.. these are not our space brothers, they are the enemy of humanity.

i for one, believe they exist. i have seen the evidence for myself.. from what i understand these beings originate from alpha draconis constellation. i have heard there is a variation of species that lives underneath the surface of Earth, as well..

Charles Turner, New Mexico / Minnesota USA
December 31, 2008 9:01pm

Charles Turner, And what about all the Egyptian gods? They where usually human-animal hybrids and images of them where depicted everywhere in Egypt. Does that mean that they are real too? And to be honest, I don't regard a story of the friend of your ex-girlfriends friend as 'evidence'.

Tom Tervoort, IJmuiden, the Netherlands
January 01, 2009 4:35am

it is very very easy to prove that shape-shifting excist.

and the arguments here above are deadly wrong, and so unfair.(about Icke)

lots of people are indeed 'repeaters' here and do not investigate.

Pindar, Holland
January 31, 2009 2:19am

Though I may regret this, how is it easy to prove that reptoids and shape shifting exist?

Craig, Washington DC
January 31, 2009 9:51am

well, first of all, why do you say you might regret this?

Because of 'bias'?, I'll tell you the 'bias' is here all over the place I am sorry to ssay. lot of it is just 'critic' on their 'own' ideas, projected upon other people.

e.g. what is told about Icke is dead on wrong. That means there has been NO investigating or research at all! just critical to one own preconceived ideas.

I know a stone wall when I see one ;)

Pindar, Holland
January 31, 2009 10:11am

Yeah, so about that proof?

Craig, Washington DC
January 31, 2009 11:58am

Hello Pindar. I wonder if you might be so kind as to describe how you would " ...prove that shape-shifting exist.".
Thank you for taking the time to comment.

Marius vanderLubbe, Nullabour Plain, Australia
January 31, 2009 2:33pm

nay I introduce the cell from hell:

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/himalia.htm

it litteraly shape shifts!

Now I am wondering what is coming next, but I guess it has a lot to do with 'cognitive dissonance' ;)

Pindar, Holland
January 31, 2009 10:44pm

Yes the organism that causes red tides does change significantly through its life-cycle. This would support Icke and his reptoid hypothesis how exactly?

No really I'm curious how does red tide (a well studied phenomenon) support David Icke's accusation that George Bush Sr. is a reptilian alien who molests children?

Mr. icke needs to do a lot better if he wants to be taken seriously. Maybe some actual evidence to start with. The world really does have actual problems that need addressing. He and his supporters have no right to be surprised when they ignored. It's the logical outcome of baseless claims.

Craig, Washington DC
February 01, 2009 12:25am

i ONLY said I can proof shapeshifting exist!, which I did!

Now my words are twisted!!!!!!

and baseless claims???????????

you haven't researched a word of Icke and relevant cases!

btw it is not only Icke claiming this there are others!

o what utter crap this web is!

critical? no. skeptical, yes!

I love to talk with HONEST people!

I am going to look for THEM!

Pindar, Holland
February 01, 2009 1:34am

Whenever I heard someone tell me a brief summary of the reptoid tale, I knew it was bullshit from the start...they basically called them "an race of reptiles from the fourth dimension who live underground and secretly run everything".
But it sure works as a metaphor, doesn't it? I mean, doesn't it sometimes feel like the world is being run by heartless inhuman beings who you never see? So I kinda have a soft spot for this theory even though it's clearly crap.

Lucky Jean, Pahoa, HI
March 04, 2009 4:10pm

David Icke's whole conspiracy theory is basically "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", only with lizards substituted for Jews. He even says that the lizards drink the blood of blond blue-eyed children, rehashing the blood libel. So it's no surprise that all this appeals to neo-Nazis, who think that the lizards are just a code for Jews.

David Icke thinks the neo-Nazis are part of the conspiracy to discredit his conspiracy theory.
Meanwhile, Alex Jones thinks that David Icke's crazy lizard theory is part of the conspiracy to discredit "genuine" conspiracy theories.

Max, Boston, MA
March 05, 2009 12:55am

Alex,

maybe you shlould read some more?
You are so wrong about what you state!

I guess you never read a book from Icke?

Pindar, Netherlands
March 11, 2009 12:26am

I've read some of David Icke. I'm really impressed by his ability to get paid to produce so much mindless idiotic crap. If people just took his books for the fantasies they are he wouldn't be such a problem but he encourages vulnerable, delusional people to get further away from reality. That is shallow, exploitive and despicable.

Craig, Washington DC
March 21, 2009 5:45pm

Craig,

It sounds you haven't read enough, or understand enough, or are too brainwashed by our indoctrination system (they call it education)
But, it is not only Icke saying these things.

And, you are calling names like
"mindless idiotic crap'
Now, that is what I call very very vry good arguments.NOT!
actually, you haven't said a thing really!

WHY is it crap?? please explain
or is that too difficult and is name calling etc easier?

guess so

always the same with the so called skeptics, what thjey think is good , what someelse thinks differently is wrong, and thet are defending their view, that is all.
no investigation, no real dialogue etc etc.

We call it DOGMA,

it can imprion your mind, you know

man o man

Pindar, Holland
March 25, 2009 1:35pm

Pindar,

Would you mind completing this task for me? (anyone else - feel free to join in...)

Review this list and grade each item in terms of how likely you think they are.

A "+" means you are sure it is true. A "0" means you think it is possible. A "-" means you think it is nonsense.

The list is in no particular order...

1. The moon landing was faked.

2. Reptoid aliens are in league with the govt.

3. America has death camps all over the desert in out of the way places.

4. The World Trade Centre buildings were destroyed by explosives.

5. Cancer curing technology is being suppressed.

6. Certain aircraft are reverse engineered alien technology.

7. HAARP is a weather control weapon.

8. Water can be used as an efficient fuel substitute, but the technology is being suppressed.

9. Elvis is still alive.

10. Kidneys are being stolen from people who are drugged at parties, and then wake in a bath full of ice, with a large cut on their lower back.

11. The world will end in December, 2012.

12. Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald to cover up some sinister govt plot, and was himself killed to cover up the evidence of the cover up.

Thanks in advance.

Brenton, New Zealand
March 25, 2009 3:00pm

Hey Pindar

I ask you the same questions that I ask 9/11 truthies:

1. Do you have evidence for your claims?
2. Is your evidence along the lines of "I you bounce this laser pointer here and circle this section of his eyes, doesn't it look like an reptile's eye?
3. If no, why are you wasting your time on sites like these? All the time you are spending here could be used to find the evidence that is needed for everyone to agree with you.

4. Do you think that rebuttal to any claim that deny's the validity of your reality fall into the lines of bullying, bull-baiting and ridicule? (actually you do not have to answer this one, because I can already tell that it is a yes)

5. Do you feel that the only way you can win this debate is by destroying minuscule parts of the argument? Do you feel that if you destroy little parts of an argument, then the rest of the argument cant stand?

If the answer is yes to more than two of those questions, then you are not interested in a debate. You just want to feel superior than the rest of us.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
March 25, 2009 3:40pm

sure

and Brenton,

your confusing a few things,

Elvia alive is NOT the same I am talking about

and talking about evidence:

first declare what you consider evidence! I have been it this idiotic game of raising the bar.

"If the answer is yes to more than two of those questions, then you are not interested in a debate. You just want to feel superior than the rest of us."

--> lol, sound a bit biased eh?!

skeptics can't seem to to find things out on their own!

Pindar, Holland
March 25, 2009 11:51pm

I didn't ask for evidence, I just asked you to rate those things as how likely you think they are.

Brenton, New Zealand
March 26, 2009 1:21am

Pindar:
"--> lol, sound a bit biased eh?!

skeptics can't seem to to find things out on their own!"

Are you going to answer the question or not? Or are you going to resort to nitpicking or ridicule?

Can you prove that Reptoids exist? That is your burden not mine. Skeptics do not have to look for the evidence because we are not making the claims. The way it works, and the way it always works, is that because you are making the claim, then it is up to you provide the evidence for it. That is how it worked for real science.

Your claim that a sizeable part of the Earth's population is reptilian is an extraordinary one, so the evidence must be extraordinary. I am sorry but photos, conspiratorial tones, and things that may as well be rorschach tests are not going to cut it. You need something huge to prove it. You need documents, intercepted transmissions, the entrance to their underground lair or a body. All the time you are wasting on this forum could be spent looking for the evidence to convince the world.

Now, I am not Breton. Are you going to ignore him? Take his quiz what is the harm?

Brenton:

Here are my answers:
The one that is possible is 11 but my little caveat is that it is also possible that the world will end tomorrow.

The rest are complete bunk.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
March 26, 2009 6:12am

Joseph, touche!

You are dead right. It COULD end tomorrow... but probably won't.

A giant star could explode close enough to toast us (actually, it would had to have exploded several thousands of years ago, and the radiation could just about be here)and an undiscovered asteroid could be hurtling towards us even as I type this... but realistically, neither are particularly likely, and I won't be losing any sleep over either of them.

Brenton, New Zealand
March 26, 2009 3:18pm

I might lose a some sleep in 2012 in the same way that I lost some sleep in 1999.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
March 26, 2009 4:44pm

The rest are complete bunk.

Really?

How do you know????

Dismissed by reflex and stupidity, that is all

Pindar, Holland
March 27, 2009 12:43am

That's nice, got any evidence?

Craig, Washington DC
March 27, 2009 8:16am

Evidence?

Oh that game eh!?

First define what you will and won't acept as evidence, otherwise we don't have a baseline and everything you won't like can be dismissed as being 'wrong evidence'!

I know that stupid game

Btw search for 'cognitive dissonance', it will explain a lot of the attitued of the so-called skeptics.

Pindar, Holland
March 28, 2009 12:50pm

Admissions by members of the Masons that they really run the world. Tape recordings, documents, photographs, wire transfers, those would be evidence. A slide show about how Jesuits are really Masons who are really working for the Vatican who are really... is not evidence.

Here's the thing. You don't matter. You don't get a seat at the table by spouting off about Masons. You start to matter when you can provide proof of what you are saying. I'm not talking about the eye on the dollar bill, I'm talking about actual evidence. The world is going to continue to go about its business and disregard your theories because you can't support them.

Here's another problem you have. We can watch how the world operates. We see interest groups interact and our understanding of social and political theory describes the world we see without a secret society based explanation.

Craig, Washington DC
March 28, 2009 3:20pm

"Btw search for 'cognitive dissonance', it will explain a lot of the attitued of the so-called skeptics."

Here is the wikipedia entry on it:
"This happens when one idea implies the opposite of another. For example, a belief in animal rights could be interpreted as inconsistent with eating meat or wearing fur. Noticing the contradiction would lead to dissonance, which could be experienced as anxiety, guilt, shame, anger, embarrassment, stress, and other negative emotional states."

Nope that does not describe any skeptics I know. The world we see is based on science and testable claims.

You, oth, got really angry when we asked for evidence to the claims. Not only did you get angry, you called our demands "a game" and "stupid." The way you dismiss our demands means you are not seeing reality for what it is. Cognitive dissonance goes far to explain how you fell into the trap of believing that Reptoids are real. We ask you to prove our claims, you hemmed and hawed around the issue.

Also, why didn't you take Breton's challenge? What's the harm in answering those questions? Will they interfere with how you see the world?

Now we are willing to believe you, as long as you meed the standards of science, which I repeat from Craig: "Admissions by members of the Masons that they really run the world. Tape recordings, documents, photographs, wire transfers, those would be evidence." Do that and we will accept you theory as valid. It is really that simple.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
March 28, 2009 5:44pm

Nope that does not describe any skeptics I know. The world see is based on science and testable claims.

Nope, he real skeptics world view is baed on:dogmas! including and especiallty the scientific dogmas.

Most in science is circular reasoning!

And don't talk about peer review!

That is even worse!

If it is peer-reviewed that doesn't mean it is is good!

Pindar, Holland
March 29, 2009 5:17am

So that would be a no on the evidence thing then?

Craig, Washington DC
March 29, 2009 6:13am

Are you going to show your evidence or not?

Or are you going to waste everyone's time by ridiculing us instead of producing the evidence we asked for?

I ask you the same question you asked us: What amount of evidence would it take to convince you that you are wrong?

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
March 29, 2009 7:30am

Well

FIRST define what will be accepted as evidence!

can't you do that or what???????????

Pindar, Holland
March 29, 2009 12:23pm

Well photographs of a reptoid would be a good place to start I think. Studies that have been repeated that show alien blood would be evidence too. Video of the Queen of England shape shifting into a lizard would be awesome.

Cave paintings, stories from antiquity, recovered memories, claims from shadowy "black ops" figures who no one but this one guy have talked to really aren't going to cut it on this one.

David Ickes and his kind say these lizard people alien things are everywhere, produce one.

Craig, Washington DC
March 29, 2009 1:20pm

My Dear,
Really, it is true and fact, but increasable: Although, it is beyond believe for the person who is not well acquainted with this subject some people around the world know it well . I believe that there are a lot of human like creature with in us.
To your surprising I really don’t know who really am I, it is disturbing issue, is there any mechanism to identify any one as a human or ET or other alien spps
Cheers!!!
K. Mammo

Kassahun Mammo Tessema, Addis Ababa
March 30, 2009 5:23am

I'd like to see a photo of a reptoid alien.

Walking around Buckingham Palace, the White House, or pretty much anywhere at all would be a damn good start...

.... OH - and I DO NOT mean a picture of a human with a "this is really a reptoid alien" title on the shot.

I mean an actual, identifiable, reptilian beast, clearly from another world.

You know - non-human.

Brenton, New Zealand
March 31, 2009 3:07pm

Gee, haven't heard from Pindar in a while.

Craig, Washington DC
April 02, 2009 10:02am

Man, V was pretty awesome for a tv series.

Seriously though, it is probably a lot easier to believe that lizard people have been responsible for many atrocities in human history than to accept the harsh truth: that the world is a really crappy place sometimes. That mundane human beings are capable of extreme apathy and evil all on their own (i.e. - without supernatural or alien influence).

Joel Bethell, Ottawa, Canada
April 02, 2009 12:05pm

Anyone read Karel Capek's brilliant 1936 satirical novel, "War with the Newts" about a race of intelligent Newts who take over the world?

Big spoiler here: The leader of the Newts turns out to be a human.

Max, Boston, MA
April 02, 2009 12:23pm

So... how are we getting on with finding photos of the reptoids, Pindar?

Brenton, New Zealand
April 05, 2009 2:53pm

o boy o boy o boy

I thought skeptics where good at logical thinking!

As you can see above, they are not!

The 'reptoids' or whatever are never invented because we couldn't explain certain phenomena!!!

The skeptics are defending their dogma agin.

it's no use to bang my head against a brick wall (skeptics)

and offcourse those skeptics see this as proof there are no reptoids.

But,, try the leaders behind Randi!

You probably never looked there.

I know I know you already have made up yur mind!

I thought data should change theories and not the other way around!

The skeptics here probably think thet the 2nd law of thermodynamics is also correct ! (it is provable not, but not for skeptics)

Oeps

I hear skeptic boots again!!!!

ppffffffff

Pindar, Holland
April 06, 2009 5:36pm

Were is the proof of your claims Pindar?

Skepticism is not a religion like you think it is. It is the neutral position for all claims like this. It basically asks for proof. You are making the claims, so you have to prove it. Your claim that 2 billion people are really reptiles from the earth is an extraordinary one so your evidence needs to be just as extraordinary. Something we have been saying since you asked us what do we count as proof so many posts ago.

Now your only proof is that James Randi is somehow controlled by these reptilians from the center of the Earth. What this really is that you see us as the enemy because we do not believe you, so you need to justify it somehow.

The second law of thermodynamics reads as follows:

"The entropy of an isolated system not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."

You know this does not apply to the Earth because we have an infinite fuel source called the Sun? The Earth is therefore an open system. It is not an isolated system like a 9 volt battery. This can be proven be experience: every time you change a battery, you are witnessing the 2nd law at work.

It is really laughable that you think ridicule is the same as proof. You can dance around the issue all you want, ridicule us all you want, but the fact of the matter is that YOU still need to prove it Pindar.

We did not make the claim so the burden of proof is not ours bear. It is yours.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 06, 2009 6:37pm

"Skepticism is not a religion like you think it is."

O yes it is. That you don't believe that doesn't mean it isn't!

Even scientism is made by the same people who made the religions!

why o why are you not aware of that?

How dumb can you be:

"It is really laughable that you think ridicule is the same as proof. "

I never never never never said it is!!!!!!

can't you skeptics read??????????????????????

skeptics unworthy!!!

Pindar, jasmijn
April 06, 2009 10:26pm

Actually I can read. Here is where I got that from:
"But,, try the leaders behind Randi!

You probably never looked there."

From that point, you were telling us that we are idiots because Randi is being controlled by these reptilian overlords. You said so yourself in your previous post and you implied that we are idiots for not checking. Hence you are ridiculing us.

"O yes it is. That you don't believe that doesn't mean it isn't!

Even scientism is made by the same people who made the religions!"

What are you talking about?

If you mean by people that are looking for explanations, then yes, you are right. The problem is that science always goes one step further. It always seeking for the truth.

Religion hates the idea of questioning things.

"why o why are you not aware of that?

How dumb can you be:"

Look more ridicule. You called me dumb for not seeing the things you call truth.

We are still waiting for your evidence of Reptoids. You make the claim, so prove it. The more time you waste here, the less time you have to find the evidence you need to prove it.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 07, 2009 9:14am

So that would be a no on the evidence of reptoids then?

Craig, Washington DC
April 07, 2009 9:30am

Better to be a reptoid than a troll.

Max, Boston, MA
April 07, 2009 9:45am

So, let's assume for the sake of argument that James Randi is on the take from the Mason's the Vatican, the Rotary Club, a secret cabal of world bankers, my father in law's Elks Lodge and the members of the Priory of Zion. Great he's a worse bastard than Pol Pot. How would that prove the existence of reptoids?

James Randi being the puppet of (insert secret society here) does not equal, the Queen of England is a lizard.

Craig, Washington DC
April 07, 2009 10:20am

That is what I mean!!!

"If you mean by people that are looking for explanations, then yes, you are right. The problem is that science always goes one step further. It always seeking for the truth."

it is NOT! at the moment science is very very very stupid and dogmatic!!!! And science is by means of the Royal Society ment to bend the truth!
Even Global warming is a sham!
It is just a beliefsystem. Examine Kuhn e.g.

Maybe the uni's are owned by the government eh? ;)

And put it the other way around: searching for truth???? How in earth do you know???????? you can't proof that! you BELIEF that!! it is just set up as an religion, and most people, especially skeptics, can't see that.

O man this game is getting ridiculous

man o man

Pindar, Holland
April 07, 2009 12:49pm

Are you going to produce the evidence or not Pindar?

Are you going to keep ridiculing us for not believing you?

You made the claim that Reptoids are real. Are you going to pony up the evidence or not?

"And put it the other way around: searching for truth???? How in earth do you know???????? you can't proof that! you BELIEF that!! it is just set up as an religion, and most people, especially skeptics, can't see that."

Again with the ridicule. Way to dance around the issue btw.

The correct answer is that reptoids being real is less likely than the alternative. God is less likely than the alternative. Until you provide the evidence for your claims, we are going to have the position we have.

What about you are certain that Reptoids are real? Are you certain that you are not one of them? If you are so certain this real, shouldn't your obligation to the rest of humanity is to prove it?

You are betraying humanity by not going out to prove it.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 07, 2009 4:55pm

"And put it the other way around: searching for truth???? How in earth do you know???????? you can't proof that! you BELIEF that!! it is just set up as an religion, and most people, especially skeptics, can't see that."

Again with the ridicule. Way to dance around the issue btw.

Ridicule?????

not if it is true!

research it please

Pindar, jasmijn
April 07, 2009 11:04pm

Are you going to get the proof or not? Are you going to keep dancing around the issue?

You made the claim you prove it. It is up to you to prove these things.

Prove the Reptoids are real. Prove that a massive conspiracy of 2 billion people that, for some reason, never includes you or any other reptoid believers.

Coming over here and making derisive comments is not proof.

Ridicule: "to deride; make fun of."

So the term applies to what you are doing. Does not apply to skeptics because "the reptoids being real is less likely than the alternative. God is less likely than the alternative. Until you provide the evidence for your claims, we are going to have the position we have. "

What about you are certain that Reptoids are real? Are you certain that you are not one of them? If you are so certain this real, shouldn't your obligation to the rest of humanity is to prove it?

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 08, 2009 7:04am

Pindar,

Most people will be dismissive of the argument that a secret race of lizard people has been responsible for Hitler and Stalin because it sounds like escapist fantasy.

There have been real, actual complex sociological and political causes to many pivotal events of history. A person can't ignore those facts without appearing ignorant.

Oh and chill out, dude: name-calling isn't making your arguments somehow more credible.

Joel Bethell, Ottawa, Canada
April 08, 2009 8:28am

Well I guess those reptoids are tricking little devils. So much for the picture. So I gather we're just supposed to take your word for it that there are these shapeshifting reptile people things walking around.

Why precisely would we do that? What is it you find so persuasive about this idea that makes you believe it? Clearly whatever it is has had some impact on you. What is it that convinced you?

Craig, Washington DC
April 08, 2009 12:20pm

I'm beginning to think that Pindar's comments are viral marketing for an upcoming science fiction film.

That's pretty clever!

Joel Bethell, Ottawa, Canada
April 08, 2009 1:09pm

"I'm beginning to think that Pindar's comments are viral marketing for an upcoming science fiction film.

That's pretty clever!
'

LOL: and they talk about ridicule

it's realy laughable, nothing more nothing less

Pindar, Holland
April 10, 2009 5:44am

No really, I'm curious, what is it that convinced you of the reptoid thing? I'm guessing it's not photographic or physical evidence or you would have produced it by now. What is the evidence that suggests there are such creatures as reptoids?

Craig, Washington DC
April 10, 2009 9:22am

Well ok

there are psychotherapist who have treated children with satanic abuse and a lot of these children have seen reptoids or what ever you call them

But you also have to connect a lot of dots. Really!

If you dare to dig deep enough you will find it.

But nobody can produce the result under your nose.

And to be true, I didn't believe it either, but there are lot of people out there who have seen them or even lived among them

I think it is wrong to give it a kne jerk reflex

Give it a change

Pindar, Holland
April 10, 2009 2:54pm

Did the children see a monster under their bed too?

Max, Boston, MA
April 10, 2009 4:58pm

Satanic ritual abuse? Really? That's been falsified so many times it's hardly worth mentioning. There have been a very few cases where lone people claiming to be Stanists abuse children but the organized abuse of children by satanist cults just doesn't happen. Most of that is based on recovered memories which is a practice long since disavowed by the APA.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_rep03.htm

Of course because this particular study was done by the FBI you'll claim conspiracy or the Masons or something are behind it. You of course won't offer evidence so that claim will not be treated with any seriousness.

See, this is what happens when you do research, you find stuff out. As for changing my knew jerk reaction; I'm not going to do that. My knee jerk reaction to claims such as these is always to demand real evidence.

Craig, Washington DC
April 10, 2009 10:14pm

See, this is what happens when you do research, you find stuff out. As for changing my knew jerk reaction; I'm not going to do that.

I know, but maybe study Edward de Bono's intelligent trap. You just walked in one! ;)

You just showed you haven't researched, and willnot AND my word are twisted again, by the skeptics offcourse

Keep defending, but it won't help.

You don't have to agree with me, I wil nevr ask that from people. You see, you can't change peoples mind They realy have to do that for themselves.

Good day! ;)

Pindar, Holland
April 12, 2009 12:53am

Yeah you find stuff out when you do research. Now take your own advice Pindar and find the evidence for your claims.

All we asked you to do was prove your claims Pindar. If you worry about your fellow man as much as you say you do, then it would be imperative that you find this evidence that one third of us are reptiles. Do you not care about your fellow man?

The burden of proof is on you. It always has been Pindar.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley Ca
April 12, 2009 7:51am

The burden of proof is on you. It always has been Pindar.

Hello skeptic!

What you really don't understand, and still uses your textbook parotting nothing else.

Even wehen a reptoid kncka on your door you won't accept it. You see, most skeptics brains are mis wired ;)

but is is a lot of fun to see you all kind of klones from each other,no no more like the same computerprogrammes. but stil convinced you can think for yourself, but you really can't

offcourse this is a AH to the sceptic group, in case you haven't that figured out yet for yourselves.

man o man

what nuts!

Pindar, Holland
April 12, 2009 10:44pm

My turn to weigh in.

There is no textbook that makes the claim that skepticism is the neutral position. A lot of them say skepticism is "the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism that is characteristic of skeptics (Merriam–Webster)."

That is what he is doing: suspending judgement until he sees the proof. And no he is not brained washed for wanting to see proof.

The best proof you have is this:

"Even wehen a reptoid kncka on your door you won't accept it. You see, most skeptics brains are mis wired ;)"

Even if that were true, that is not the issue. It never has been. You claim to have proof, but the best you can come up with is a hypothetical.

BTW, the reasons why people look similar to others is not from the reptilian, but from a process called pareidoilia. It is the ability to recognize faces in a crowd. And the way everyone's brains is wired is that you will see these people and immediately assume they are your friends until something else proves is other wise.

Now while most people will says, "Hey he looks like Brad pitt! That's interesting," you are saying to "He looks like Brad Pitt. OMG He was replaced by the Reptoids!"

For the record, my brain works fine. My psychotherapist says so.

Your brain, however, appears to not work so good.

Now, we are not asking for hypothetical reptoid to prove he exists. We are asking you to do that simply because you claimed to have proof.

Prove it.

Jakob Ambrose, Holtville
April 13, 2009 6:42am

I'm not defending anything. I don't have a hypothesis here you do. I think we've pretty well established that Pindar has no evidence of reptoids.

Craig, Washington DC
April 13, 2009 8:39am

Reading isn't the skeptics best skill!

;)

Pindar, Holland
April 14, 2009 8:17am

This may be hard for you to accept but there's a fine and subtle difference between a meaningless rant and evidence.

Craig, Washington DC
April 14, 2009 9:42am

Believing in a deity is one thing: even without concrete proof, faith can grant a person a bit of an emotional and mental "boost" in hard times.

...But what benefit is there to be gained from believing in lizard people, besides a sci-fi kick?

All that I can imagine is that this belief grants paranoia and alienation to the individual.

Pindar: if you have had no personal, empirical encounter with Reptoids, why do you want to believe in them?

I really want to know.

Joel Bethell, Ottawa, Canada
April 14, 2009 10:40am

"This may be hard for you to accept but there's a fine and subtle difference between a meaningless rant and evidence."

LOL

Actually, no it isn't very hard for me. ;)

But it is ok ;)

No hard feelings.

Pindar, Holland
April 14, 2009 11:55am

"Reading isn't the skeptics best skill!"

You are not good at reading too. Did you read this statement by Joe Bethel?

"Pindar: if you have had no personal, empirical encounter with Reptoids, why do you want to believe in them?

I really want to know."

And so do I. Why is it so imperative that we need to believe this?

Joseph Furguson, Brawley Ca
April 14, 2009 3:01pm

"Pindar: if you have had no personal, empirical encounter with Reptoids, why do you want to believe in them?"

LOL

another proof you people can't read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never stated I WANT to believe in them!

skeptics ar so good in twisting words!!

Sorry, but I really think skeptics are the most stupid people I know.

Thick!

Pindar, Holland
April 14, 2009 8:55pm

Great, so we have no established that Pindar can join the ranks of David Icke and all the other proponents of the reptoid idea in that he like they can offer no evidence they exist. You truly have joined illustrious company.

Craig, Washington DC
April 15, 2009 11:56am

"Great, so we have no established that Pindar can join the ranks of David Icke and all the other proponents of the reptoid idea in that he like they can offer no evidence they exist. You truly have joined illustrious company."

LOL

You just made me very very proud!!

No kidding here.

Pindar, Holland
April 15, 2009 12:42pm

You know, he does okay selling this stupid nonsense at UFO conventions and other fringe get together. It's all a load of crap but maybe you could get something going here. A short book perhaps. I've read some of Icke's stuff, it can't be that hard. What do you think he takes in peddling his bogus stories per convention? You may not be as big as him starting out but you could work the circuit and get a small following of cranks who consistently pay to hear you rant.

Craig, Washington DC
April 16, 2009 9:25am

Pindar, Holland
April 16, 2009 11:21am

No, I'm just suggesting a better use of your time would be to try and sell this reptoid, Free Mason and whatever else to people who already are so far gone they believe anything. You clearly have been completely unsuccessful with people who insist on real evidence. Having seen the crowds and these fringe conventions I don't think you're going to have the problems that you had with people on this board.

Craig, Washington DC
April 17, 2009 10:31pm

Craig

Come on, you know better!!

Pindar, Hollandf
April 18, 2009 7:20pm

Well, since you have no evidence for the reptoid stuff and no one on the board is going to just take your word for it, you might consider and easier crowd. That, and let's face it Ickes takes these people for a lot of money with his books and speaking fees. Really, you could get a piece of that.

Craig, Washington DC
April 19, 2009 10:58am

Pindar, are cheap insults to people giving good (although perhaps sarcastic) advice truly what we've fallen to?

man o man

Joseph, Norman
April 19, 2009 1:01pm

Pindar, are cheap insults to people giving good (although perhaps sarcastic) advice truly what we've fallen to?

man o man

according to your line: YES!

Pindar, Holland
April 20, 2009 3:43am

Well yes, it was sarcastic. I was trying to make a point about this being more about selling books and speaking fees than warning people about the dangers of the reptoid menace. I would never advocate anyone knowingly contributing to someone's delusional thinking or furthering their intellectual impoverishment.

The universe is a very cool and amazing place and it saddens me when people get lost in this sort of nonsense miss out on what' actually happening. Learn to SCUBA dive; take a nature walk; get a microscope and some pond water; buy a telescope; volunteer on an archeological dig. Any of those things will be far more interesting and enlightening than get lost in this nonsense.

Craig, Washington DC
April 22, 2009 12:34pm

Well yes, it was sarcastic. I was trying to make a point about this being more about selling books and speaking fees than warning people about the dangers of the reptoid menace. I would never advocate anyone knowingly contributing to someone's delusional thinking or furthering their intellectual impoverishment.

please keep this promise and stop promoting science then! I know it sounds absurd, but that doesn't mean it isn't so, 'science' is used as a control tool!

But ok don't believe me, but also don't reject it out of hand

investigate!

I didn't believed it either bit I was willing to onvestigate

But well, I think I know what you will do.....

That's your right

Pindar, Holland
April 22, 2009 11:48pm

"stop promoting science"

Seriously dude?

Why are you even here?

Joel, Ottawa, Canada
April 23, 2009 7:14am

He's a troll. We are not supposed to feed them, but it is fun to do so once in a while.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley Ca
April 23, 2009 10:38am

"stop promoting science"

Seriously dude?

Why are you even here?

He's a troll.a dude.

O man how easy! It just proves my point about skeptics.
They are actually true 'believers'
every one who attackt their church is a 'heretic'Actually, nothing special here, Science has been set up by the same people who have set up the religions.

Just name calling, no inevstigating!LOL and they call themselves Sketics and Critical!
what a laugh!

It show s it shows!

Pindar, Holland
April 23, 2009 10:31pm

Hey Pindar: have you ever visited Conservapedia.com?

You'll find a lot of people there just like you!

And if you are a troll, then you'll have LOTS of fun!

Joel, Ottawa, Canada
April 24, 2009 5:22am

Pindar, Skepticism is working just fine here as you have offered no evidence therefore no one believes you. That's fine. That's how it's supposed to work. How could you possibly think that we would simply take your word for something as improbable as reptoids? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. As you have not offered any credible evidence whatsoever, we as good skeptics dismiss your claims.

Can I prove there are no such things as reptoids? No. Can I prove that there is not presently in my kitchen a hermaphrodite, midget ninja assassin waiting to pummel me to death with a frozen herring? No. The incredibly remote possibility of such an event will not stop me from going to get another beer. Barring any actual evidence, your hypothesis bears no further scrutiny.

Craig, Washington DC
April 24, 2009 10:34am

LOL

Pindar, Skepticism is working just fine here as you have offered no evidence therefore no one believes you. That's fine. That's how it's supposed to work. How could you possibly think that we would simply take your word for something as improbable as reptoids? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. As you have not offered any credible evidence whatsoever, we as good skeptics dismiss your claims.

You really think I expected that??
offcourse your going to dismiss my claims! please behave like a grown up!!!!!

You must be more mad than I thought!

Pindar, Holland
April 24, 2009 11:55am

Pinder
There is nothing un grown up about dismissing claims that lack evidence. On the contrary I would argue that wanting to have extraordinary claims proven to you is a key part of maturity. As you mature you dismiss Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and the monster in the closet. This is because your reasoning skills go beyond "Someone told me that is therefore it must be.
I dismiss any claim of reptoids for lack of any evidence. But would freely accept any of the following 1. A captured creature whos DNA was proven non-human / alien 2. Fossils or bones that had no other explanation or 3 A discover of any of thier underground cities that had no earthly/human explanation.
Too much to ask for?. Than I would ask you how much it would to accept Ninjas ready to jump on Craig. If you accept that or reptoids without extraordinary proof that your reasoning skills need to grow up. If not I have a pink hippo who shares meatloaf recipes with me..........

Ronald Hughston, Mason City IA
April 24, 2009 1:57pm

Pindar,

Science doesn't control people like you claim. It may seem like that to you because people with an understanding of science dismiss your claims. All science is doing is saying you have to support your claim. You can't do that so science dismisses you. That's not controlling people it's just doing to responsible thing.

Craig, Washington DC
April 25, 2009 10:57pm

Science doesn't control people like you claim. It may seem like that to you because people with an understanding of science dismiss your claims. All science is doing is saying you have to support your claim. You can't do that so science dismisses you. That's not controlling people it's just doing to responsible thing.

Craig O Craig,

I KNOW the official stance of science! I'd have studied at a university!!!!! I am very sorry I did. It is bad for the brain.

But still, you just keeps parroting the oficial line!

You are not very creative or a very deep thinker or searcher.

I tell you again

Science is set up to control!
Just like religions. The same people who had set up religions has set up science once religion wasn't very powerfull to control them anymore. Take a good distance from both of them and see the similarity in structure!
I understand when you are in a cloud you can't se the cloud.

But start investigating instead of stupid parroting.

Or can't you do that?

And then they call themselves critical!

HA!

Pindar, Africa
April 26, 2009 5:03am

Dude, talking about the reptoids. I was fascinated by this story with the reptoids but became disappointed when I couldn't find any proof to support the existence of these reptoids or CHUD looking things. I like Zeitgeist the movie it is good. It shows many conspiracies, but don't believe every word in that movie either. You can check other sources for other films who have refuted some of the arguments that the Zeitgeist film was making. This way you get a more accurate depiction.

Thanks,
Green Tea

Green Tea, Taipei, Taiwan
April 27, 2009 7:55am

Just out of curiosity, what is this body that decides what the official stance of science is? Who are these people making up this line I'm supposed to be parroting?

This is really sad. You're not a dumb guy you're just lost in all this made up nonsense. The real world is an amazing place. Go out and explore it. You live in Europe and you seem to be interested in history (sort of). Go crawl around castles, visit Waterloo, stand on the beach and Normandy and imagine what it was like to run out of a landing craft. Or don't do history. Take pictures of birds, read about quantum physics, do a nature walk. I promise that real life is far more incredible than any of these silly stories.

Craig, Washington DC
April 27, 2009 10:13am

This is really sad. You're not a dumb guy you're just lost in all this made up nonsense. The real world is an amazing place. Go out and explore it. You live in Europe and you seem to be interested in history (sort of). Go crawl around castles, visit Waterloo, stand on the beach and Normandy and imagine what it was like to run out of a landing craft. Or don't do history. Take pictures of birds, read about quantum physics, do a nature walk. I promise that real life is far more incredible than any of these silly stories.

I agree, so????????????

I only don't agreee about the silly stories, who declares them silly? right!!

I never said real life was dull ;)

wake up and smell the coffee

Pindar, Washington D.C
April 27, 2009 9:18pm

Just out of curiosity, what is this body that decides what the official stance of science is? Who are these people making up this line I'm supposed to be parroting?

Don't you know Craig? Do you really not know?

tssss

Pindar, Germany
April 28, 2009 10:16am

No really I don't. What is this body?

Craig, Washington DC
April 28, 2009 11:20am

Oh man this is fun.

Out of all the conspiracy theories, I think that the reptilian one seems to be the most crazy, but at the same time, the least relevant to reality. These wackos are not violent like the 8/11, they are more loony than the Moon landing people, and less paranoid than the JFK assassination wackos.

The funny thing is that these reptoid wackos do not want to act upon their beliefs. There is this massive conspiracy, but they do not want to prove it.

Nevermind that this massive conspiracy is doing what now? Wait Nothing! This conspiracy is inept and not worth anyone's time.

Now Science has an official body? Basically, since we do not believe you, we are part of some conspiracy. I would like to know what it's official stance. You made the claim, so you must tell us.

Now, he is trying to change where he is from. He thinks that will somehow unhinge our mind and accept his nonsense. It will not work.

Now I wait for you take what I said and find one way to make yourself sound even crazier.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
April 28, 2009 12:06pm

Oh man this is fun!

"Nevermind that this massive conspiracy is doing what now? Wait Nothing! This conspiracy is inept and not worth anyone's time."

Are you really sure about yor statement? I guess, but I think you are totally wrong.

Start investigating, but I know once you 'see' the evidence you will not believe it, it is a pity and laughable that you think you will.

Pindar, Belgium
April 28, 2009 10:14pm

Now, he is trying to change where he is from. He thinks that will somehow unhinge our mind and accept his nonsense.

sure

You must be mad!

Pindar, Spain
April 29, 2009 8:22am

"Are you really sure about your statement? I guess, but I think you are totally wrong."

That's nice. How's it coming with providing evidence?

Craig, Washington DC
May 04, 2009 11:02am

Aimed @ Pindar's 'cell from hell'

The Pfiesteria piscicida has been found to *not* shapeshift-and may not even be related to the red tide. No toxin was isolated, and the fish were apparently killed by an unrelated paramecium. Your 'cell from hell' actually has one life cycle, but I suppose that's what you get for not using more updated information.

Joseph, Norman
May 07, 2009 5:06pm

Joseph

Yeah I guess!! ;)

Pindar, Belgium
May 08, 2009 7:56am

so?

Pindar, Germany
May 08, 2009 12:01pm

So you actually have no proof of shapeshifting. I'm really glad you tried, but try again.

Joseph, Norman
May 10, 2009 5:02pm

Found this online:
http://www.greatdreams.com/reptlan/pindar.htm

Pretty sure Pindar is a troll

Michael, Worcester
May 27, 2009 3:27pm

And yet we feed him. Why? Because it is fun.

Joseph, Norman, OK
June 15, 2009 4:26pm

You say that "virtually" (a misleading idiotic word) any statement Icke makes is "easily" falsified by minimal research... OK, research the symbolism of reptiles throughout the ages. Rsearch how each continent has stories of reptiles dating back thousands of years. Research bloodlines of royalty. Research a hundred other things that, in fact (not virtually), cannot be debunked.

Also, please tell me you talked to the O'Brien's to hear their stories for yourself. Or are you just another agent of disinformation?

For your own sake and others', please do some honest research, and you'll find out there's a reason there are so many "virtually" related stories out there...

Give your head a shake. You aren't a skeptic. You are a moron by your own presentation.

Mabus, Draco
July 21, 2009 10:51am

All that symbolism fails in a most spectacular fashion to prove that there are reptiles walking among us. This is a great example of how not to look for evidence. It's the "if then statement". If there are cave paintings of reptiles walking like people then there must be reptiles walking around. It's a logical fallacy. Evidence would be, producing an actual reptoid.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This one isn't even close.

Craig, Washington DC
July 24, 2009 9:50am

I can see how this all seems fantastical. I can see you've chose to pick on David Icke and he's an obvious example of someone presenting information, which he has connected into a whole picture. Connecting the dots if you will.

What you haven't said is that PEOPLE from all over the world approached HIM with stories of Reptoids in the early 90's. He thought they were all NUTS. It became a TSUNAMI of people by the mid 90's.

So what evidence is there?

Our oldest civilization the Sumerians gave detailed account of what happened in antiquity. Have you read a translation of the Sumerian Tablets?

Have you heard of the Chitauri/Mzungu (Africa) Nagas (Asia) Queztocoatl/Viracocha (central/south america) Alinga (Australia) some of which were races of tall blond haired blue eyed people (hybrids?) and others the reptilian race from the underworld?

So you did your Hopi research? Why did you not say that one of their creation myths says they were chased by a the 'children of the reptile' from the a paradise deep inside the inner planet through a hole called 'SIPAPU' which they sealed up to keep them from following the Hopi.

Why haven't you picked on Barbara Marciniak? Her book 'Bringers of the Dawn' circa 1994 said the same thing four years before the publication of the Biggest Secret.

Have you ever seen an ATOM? You believe they exist because some guy in white coat told you they do, or you read it in a book.

I haven't either. Do i believe they exist?

Anything is possible.

malcom, portland, oregon
July 25, 2009 8:29pm

The Sumerians mention scorpion people in their mythology along with stone men and a tunnel that the sun travels through when it hits the horizon. The Hopi having talking coyotes. None of those are real. You'll forgive me if I don't take their mythology as fact.

As for atoms. Yeah actually we've seen atoms. Not only that we've tested atomic theory in some really spectacular ways which supports the theory. I will presume you have heard of thermonuclear weapons. Particle physicists have even gone past atoms and are working with even smaller particles at places like CERN in Switzerland. That's actually some really fascinating stuff. It's frankly absurd to try to place reptoids in the same category as real science that people actually do real work on.

It's strange when there's so much actual cool stuff happening out there that people get all caught up in nonsense like this. You don't have to make the world an interesting place with all this silliness, it's already an interesting place.

There are also problems that really exist in the world that people could spend time on as opposed to this which absent any actual evidence exists only in between people's ears.

Craig, Washington DC
July 25, 2009 9:00pm

Well I think our president Obama could very well be a one of them... thats all I have too say about that.

Ryan, Thousand Oaks CA
August 04, 2009 4:26pm

I should add one more thing... That sonia sotomayor that obama but in office randumly is also a reptoid : )

Ryan, Thousand Oaks
August 06, 2009 5:54pm

I can understand your points.

but have YOU ever seen an ATOM?

From the evidence i have researched, more people have Reptilians than have seen Atoms.

So... as you would know, the world we perceive isn't solid. FACT. Its all waveforms. FACT. Our brains decode these waveforms and give our perception a solidity. FACT.

We are literally blind. FACT. We see 0.005 % of the available spectrum of electromagnetic energy. FACT. The rest that light is called 'dark matter'. FACT. Ultraviolet, micrcowaves... are just two levels that we can't decode. What exists in those realms of light? Seen any U.V. infra-red videos of UFO's? Biological organisms? There are plenty to look at on the web.

95% of our DNA is called 'junk DNA'. FACT. Why because we have no idea what it does. We were unplugged from our 12 strands when we could decipher the light spectrum at greater levels in antiquity. Who unplugged us?

Who do you think? Its a big picture, one way more complicated than a rational mind can comprehend. If you want to live in a 5 sense prison that's your choice.

If others chose to see a bigger picture, that's theirs. Don't lose sight of what's important. Freedom to choose, respect of that decision as long as its not hurting anyone else.

If you have watched, read and informed yourself with all the information for and against the existence of Reptilians (and other sentient lifeforms other than humans) and still don't believe in their existence, that's your choice.

Bless.

malcolm, portland oregon
August 07, 2009 8:04pm

No, much of the world is solid, it being one of the three states of matter.

Dark matter and invisible light, two totally different things.

We can see into the infra red and ultraviolet spectrums, you just need special equipment to do it.

The whole who unplugged us thing doesn't really bear commenting on.

Craig, Washington DC
August 08, 2009 10:09pm

Well, with the exception of the portions of the universe that are gas (like most of it) and liquid. Those would be the three states of matter.

There's probably some metaphysical phenomenology argument coming that reality is a creation of our minds or something but that sort of thing doesn't really bear scrutiny.

Or, it possible that the three states of matter are really just a scam pulled off by reptoids and their puppets the recreated Knights Templar who are now the Masons. Being as there's lot of empirical data to support the three states of matter and none for a Masonic/Templar/Reptoid conspiracy I think we're good.

Craig, Washington DC
August 13, 2009 10:50am

Everything about this article is true. I used to live in LA and came across this article about 18 years ago, and confirmed it with my father who live in LA at that time. He's a retired fireman and helped fiund the tunnels.

William, Fairfax, Virginia
August 16, 2009 5:11pm

There are then I presume photographs of the tunnels? You could then take someone there and show them the tunnels?

Craig, Washington DC
August 16, 2009 8:36pm

Were there two strange, parallel lines, intersected by many other perpendicular lines in these tunnels?

Clay Wells, Adelaide, Australia.
August 17, 2009 1:59am

The problem with your claim, William, is that there is no way to support it. An article you read in 1991 said something that you sort of agreed with in the first place.

Here are a few of the many questions that needs to be asked to verify the claim of your article:

1. What newspaper published the article?

2. Are you sure it was a newspaper article? Why not a magazine, a fanzine, an underground newspaper, or whatever else you can think of?

3. What is the name of the reporter that wrote the article?

4. What is the name of the firefighter that wrote it?

5. How come we have not heard about this article until now?

Now one for you:

1. Did you keep this article. If it was so important for your claim of secret runnels, surely you must have kept it.

When you respond, you are not allowed to go with the old reptoid believer standby answer of "they are suppressing the information of this article." Nor are you allowed to turn your response back on me.

Looking forward to your non response.

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
August 17, 2009 8:35am

I am not quick to believe in anything, only in possibilities and probability. example:scientist have already discussed the possibility of time travel to a parallel universe and if possible then it will be inevitable just as the end of our solar system is inevitable. would it not make more sense to escape your inevitable demise through time travel to an alternate world your already accustomed to rather than search light years away for a habitable planet you may never find. perhaps reptilian humanoids in an alternate universe escaped their demise and would most likely be thousands if not millions of years more advanced than us.

mike rutherford, atlanta
August 23, 2009 5:44pm

There would be some credible evidence that this happened I presume?

Craig, Washington DC
August 25, 2009 11:16am

Ah, the old using one absurdity to explain another routine. Well done, Mike Rutherford. I should just stick to making money off Genesis royalties, if I were you. Please try not to make any more albums.

Clay Wells, Adelaide, Australia
August 25, 2009 2:57pm

Okay, I live in state with nothing even remotely resembling a mountain and keep meaning to ask...
What the hell's a "fourteener?"

Lewayne, Near Des Moines
October 14, 2009 7:13pm

@ Lewayne, Near Des Moines:
a fourteener is a mountain higher than 1400 feet

Valery Suprunov, Duesseldorf Germany
December 14, 2009 5:25am

Thank you, Valery. I appreciate the response.

Lewayne, Near Des Moines
December 16, 2009 11:31am

Penn & Teller's Bullshit! did an episode on Conspiracy Theories, with some David Icke stuff in it. Seeing and hearing him explain it all himself is just something truly special... in that he must truly be one hell of a salesman, or else one hell of a mentally disturbed person.

Being the philanthropic optimistic misanthrope I am, I'm prone to believing he doesn't actually believe this shit, but uses it to sell books and make money.

Also, 3+9 is 7, right?

Andariel Halo, Miami, Florida
January 11, 2010 8:20am

I haven't seen Icke present his position on Bull$#!t; but Jon Ronson, in his book, "Them" seems to lean toward Icke believing the stuff he says about reptilians. Ronson relates an interview in which Icke lays out the different species of reptoids and how they interact with each other.
I don't recall that Icke ever explains in "Them" how he came to gain this detailed knowledge.
Whether he made it up consciously, or has deluded himself into believing in reptoids, the end result is the same. He's promoting outrageous irrational BS, and I'm still amazed (though I shouldn't be) that people buy into it.

Lewayne, Near Des Moines
January 11, 2010 8:46pm

Cognitive Dissonance

That's all folks!

Pindar

Pindar, Germany
February 05, 2010 6:24am

We know you have that Pindar.

We are presenting you with evidence and you are not accepting it because you need a massive alien conspiracy to make the world less chaotic. It makes life so much easier when random things are not random does it?

Also, weren't you in Holland 6 months ago? And before that, UK? Has the cognitive dissonance warped your mind to see yourself living in places that you really aren't?

Joseph Furguson, Brawley, Ca
February 05, 2010 7:14am

Just goes to show even supposedly advanced civilization isn't immune to myth creation. Maybe, though, the best way to explore it is to see what the lizards symbolize to the people who believe in them — often, it seems, they reflect personal feelings of inability to protect themselves and make a difference in society.

The key question, then, is why? In many cases, I'd suspect child abuse on the personal level, but there are also the broader social problems of a culture out of touch with nature. In general, we're in denial of humanity's "reptilian" and animal aspects that exist by virtue of our genetic relationship to everything else on Earth.

Brian, did you notice Hopi legends indicating that humans came from <i>within</i> the earth? I wonder how misreading those fueled Shufelt's fantasy...

Gus, Southbridge, MA
February 08, 2010 10:16am

The presence of reptile like creatures goes way back and can be found in almost all cultures. Much of Ike's information comes from the last remaining keeper of the old stories - credo mutwa. Most indiginious african tribes have stories about them, though many have moments in their history where they were abrubtly told to never speak of them - dogon people for one.

America is the country of the snake, snake people is another phrase associated with them. St. Patrick rid the island of the snakes - there aren't any snakes in ireland to speak of and not because of him. What he did was end certain agreements with said beings. Dragons in china and so on, the references are endless and not everyone can be just making things up.

The thing to understand is that they operate outside of this dimension, out of phase with us, as such are not really "seen" by us although on occasion it does happen. While the map's origins may be via dousing, I suspect there is some truth to it.

sleuth, los angeles
February 09, 2010 7:58pm

Sleuth,

Snakes are nearly everywhere on Earth. That many people have legends about them is entirely unsurprising. There are also endless tales of bird-men (Japan), pig men (China), wolf-men (Europe), and other hybrids of men and every other creature you can think of. By your flawed logic, South Park was right and the Earth is a bestiary of endless alien species that crossed over with man.

"Out of phase" is pure science fiction technobabble. Other dimensions is less so, but all theory points to these other dimensions acting on a scale far, FAR below what is detectable by man by any means, let alone the variable focus lenses in the human eye.

Here's the simplest solution: David Icke is a fraud who's relying on the testimony of crazy people. Frauds and crazy people are EXTREMELY common; the human eye somehow picking up "another dimension" is ridiculously unlikely.

John, Canada
February 10, 2010 12:53am

Interesting, I love this stuff, thanks for doing the research. I don't know why, I don't personally believe in conspiracy theories, but I find them interesting anyway. Scientology, Lizard People - somehow it just fascinates me.

Rarely do you get such an in depth look from the skeptic side of things, usually it's either the nut-bars promoting the conspiracies, or skeptics saying "I don't have time to waste pointing out all the problems (with said conspiracy)."

Bruce, Minnesota
February 16, 2010 8:08pm

Interesting theory, though I prefer to interpret the Reptoid theory as a metaphor for primitive behavior associated with the Reptilian Complex of the brain following Paul D. MacLean's triune brain model.

John Tchoutoye, Amsterdam
February 25, 2010 6:12pm

Mind you, I don't believe in this stuff, but you're entirely incorrect about "out of phase" being sci-fi technobabble. Any study of phase of oscillation will include the state of being out of phase, where two oscillators having the same frequency and different phases have a phase difference, and so the oscillators are said to be "out of phase."

am, pdx
May 08, 2010 12:26am

I fully understand all the conspiracy theorists, because what they do is defend their business, the problem begins when the business tries to deceive innocent people and steal their money, because ultimately the money goes all gray this story.

NewZealander, Spain
May 14, 2010 10:55am

At this point, anything CAN be possible. It matters to who's ears it falls on and how many will believe. The more you tell a lie in time becomes arguably truthful...

any1, from somewhere nearby
June 10, 2010 1:27am

Really good, but Icke is pronounced "Ike" as in Turner.

Holly, UK
June 20, 2010 1:04pm

Gus from MA raises a point I have wondered about since first reading Icke. These reptilians read like a nightmare of sexual torture and abuse--which could very well be a victim of abuse trying to dissociate from the reality of how brutal humans can be and how cruel parents can be. Icke reads more like serious psychological damage than deliberate deception. While many people make fun of the whole idea, which if read literally makes no sense, maybe what is not literal may be more important. Severe abuse is difficult to deal with (and I am NOT saying ritual Satanic abuse, just bad people severely messing up their kids) and this fantasy could be their way of dealing. I just find the whole thing quite sad. These seem to be very damaged people that instead of trying to understand them, we make fun of them.

Sheri Kimbrough, Wyoming
July 06, 2010 6:38am

I guess we are lucky that Icke saw Doctor Who: Warriors of the Deep, and not Alternative 3. Or he would be taking credit for predicting global warming by now... Oh wait he already did that. Then it's a good job he didn't see the Matrix- oh bugger it...

Tom H, Kent, UK
August 08, 2010 12:46pm

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