I Got Trolled by My First Anti-Vaxxer!

Recently, I logged onto Facebook and found the following article in my feed:

Screen capture from www.washingtonpost.com

I was in a bit of a sour mood at that moment, so when I hit the share button I wrote a vitriol-filled post to accompany it. To my surprise, it got shared quite a bit—meaning 15 or 20 reshares compared to my typical two. Honestly, I was a little surprised. And then, I got my very first screed from anti-vaxxer troll, a self-described “old school hippie, loving mother and proud grandmother, happy and joyous and free” who “studied at the School of Hard Knocks”:

richard, please let me inject you and your babies with mercury ok?

I replied, of course. But the response got me thinking, and it got me wondering, and it got me asking questions.

Thinking? Isn’t that dangerous?

It sure seems like some people believe that, yes.

Now, if you’re reading a blog like Skeptoid, you’re probably no stranger to the whole antivaxxer “mercury in your vaccine” thing. It seems to be one of the common tropes they pull out, waving the word around as if it were a crucifix capable of banishing the vampires of reason and science. But then, it occurred to me, that I don’t actually know much about mercury in vaccines. Is it still there? Some of the people who dogpiled on Old School Hippie said that it can no longer be found in vaccines.  Full stop.

I believed them at first. But, hey. I’m a skeptic, and just believing someone I don’t know because they happened to make a Facebook post I agree with is a terrible example of skepticism. So, I decided to look it up. And it turns out that the CDC has a wonderful two-page fact sheet titled Understanding Thimerosal, Mercury, and Vaccine Safety.

You can probably guess what it’s about from the title, right?

Seriously? You’re going to talk about mercury in vaccines?

Yes. I am. Because I don’t know much about it, and I suspect that I’m not alone in that. We’ve got a whole lot of other really good articles on this site if you aren’t interested.

Mercury in vaccines takes the form of thiomersal, aka thimerosal, aka Ethyl(2-mercaptobenzoato-(2-)-O,S) mercurate(1-) sodium, aka Mercury((o-carboxyphenyl)thio)ethyl sodium salt, aka C9H9HgNaO2S, and the Material Safety Data Sheet does make it look a little spooky. It is an ethylmercury, which the CDC says is “broken down by the body differently and clears out of the blood more quickly” than the methylmercury that can damage the nervous system in large doses.

Still, you don’t want to play around with it. Thimerosal is “hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, or inhalation” and “may be toxic in kidneys, liver, spleen, bone marrow, central nervous system”. The LD50 is 75 mg/kg for rats, and 91 mg/kg for mice.

Keep that number in mind. I’ll be back to it.

Thimerosal is used as a preservative in multi-dose flue vaccine vials, to prevent the growth of bacteria and fungus. It is also used to prevent the growth of microbes during the manufacturing process of DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis) and DTaP-Hib (diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis-haemophilus influenzae type b) combination vaccines, the only childhood vaccines that contain any traces of the chemical, and the thimerosal is removed from the vaccine as part of the finishing process when it is manufactured. Manufacturers stopped using it in all other childhood vaccines following recommendation by the US Public Health Service, who wanted to “reduce mercury exposure among infants as much as possible”.

What’s this “LD50” thing you mentioned?

I’m glad you asked!

LD50 is short for “Lethal dose, 50%” and is also known as the median lethal dose. It is, simply put, the quantity of a substance required to kill half the members of a tested population after a specified test duration. Thimerosal has a LD50 of 75 mg/kg to 91 mg/kg, depending on the type of rodent you are trying to kill with it. Extrapolating outwards to humans from the lower number – always a risk, since the Material Safety Data Sheet didn’t have the information for humans – let’s do a little math. My son weighed right around 4 kg when he got his vaccine. So, to hit the LD50 dosage, he’d have had to get a 300 mg dose of pure thimerosal.

(Incidentally, the LD50 of water is “>90 ml/kg” for rats. Just so you know.)

I don’t remember how much he weighed at two months, when he got his first DTaP vaccination, but let’s assume his LD50 level was still right at 300 mg at that point.  Now, the total volume of fluid in the DTaP injection is which is 0.5 mL (which is 0.5 grams or 500 mg in weight), a quantity that is 1.66 times larger than the LD50 we calculated.  Which sounds frightening, right?

Maybe not.  After all, on how much of that 0.5 mL is actually thimerosal.  And it turns out that the answer is “most likely none whatsoever”.  The FDA, lists three different DTaP vaccines, one DTap-HepB-IPV vaccine, one DTaP-IPV/Hib vaccine, and one DTaP-IPV vaccine from two different manufacturers. Only one of them has any thimerosal in it whatsoever, and that measures at less than 0.3 µg in a 0.5 mL dose. A “µg” is a microgram, if you aren’t familiar with that notation, and it is a one-thousandth of a milligram or a one-millionth of a gram.  Which means that there is less than 0.0003 grams of thimerosal in the vaccine in the worst case scenario.  So, assuming my son was exposed to any at all, it was less than million times smaller than the LD50 dose.

But let’s dig deeper!

Lets.

The FDA also discusses some other dosage levels for thimerosal. A 1931 study determined that the “maximum tolerated doses not associated with death” was 20 mg/kg for rabbits and 45 mg/kg in rats, with “no histopathological changes in the brain or kidney” after 190 days of daily intranasal doses at that level. Some cases of acute mercury poisoning from thimerosal-containing products have been observed in the medical literature, however, at concentrations as low as 3 mg/kg. Still, even at that extreme level, my son would have needed to be exposed to approximately 12 mg (12,000 µg) of thimerosal to risk even acute mercury poisoning – more than 40 times more than he might have been exposed to. Because, remember, he only had a 1-in-6 chance of even getting a DTaP vaccine that contained any thimerosal at all.

This is just one of the factors that led me to write what I did when I responded to “Old School Hippie”. Here’s what I said:

My son has been vaccinated. Why? Because I trust thousands of peer reviewed papers over multiple decades of research that demonstrate the safety and efficacy of vaccines over proven fraudsters and quacks like Andrew Wakefield and his ilk. I trust the science and medical expertise that has wiped out smallpox, eradicated measels from the Americas, nearly wiped out polio, and transformed chickenpox from a fact of life into the vague memories of older folks like me.

No, I owuldn’t let you inject mercury into my son. I also wouldn’t let you put him under a general anaesthetic or implant tubes in his ears, or prescribe him antibiotics. But I would allow a trained medical doctor, making use of the best medical knowledge available and acting under accepted standards of medical care within his or her own area of expertise, to do any or all of these things. Because they, unlike you, know what they’re doing.

It’s nothing personal. I also wouldn’t let you rewire my house or fix my plumbing unless you happen to be an electrician or a plumber.

Always remember: the School of Hard Knocks is full of lessons taught by Professor Dunning-Krueger.

(Note:  The article was corrected after publication to correct and remove a math error.  Thanks to MBDK for letting me know!)

About Richard Gant

Richard Gant is a husband, a father, and a huge nerd with a deep love of science, science fiction, and fantasy. He works for a brokerage firm he won't name here in order to keep his Compliance department happy, and frequently talks to inanimate objects as if they can understand him. He also has a difficult time writing seriously about himself in the third person.
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25 Responses to I Got Trolled by My First Anti-Vaxxer!

  1. MBDK says:

    Richard, not that it makes a significant difference, but please check your math. You said:

    “I don’t remember how much he weighed at two months, when he got his first DTaP vaccination, but let’s assume his LD50 level was still right at 300 mg at that point. That LD50 dose is 1.66 times larger than the total amount of fluid in the DTaP injection (which is 0.5 mL, which is roughly 0.5 gram or 500 mg in weight).”

    500mg is 1.66 times larger than 300mg, not the other way around. ; P

  2. sszorin says:

    Why don’t you spend time agitating for removal of mercury from vaccines instead of preaching to the converted on this forum ?

    • Richard Gant says:

      Did you read anything I wrote? Or look at any of the sources I used?

      1. Out of the 31 vaccines discussed by the FDA, only five contain even trace amounts of thimerosol. Nineteen of them never contained thimerosol. Assuming I agitated for the removal of mercury, what would I be agitating it be removed from?
      2. Thimerosol is safe. It has been demonstrated to be safe in repeated tests, at doses that are orders of magnitude larger than the total amount a human being would ever be exposed to through vaccinations – assuming that person drew the short stick and got every vaccine still on the market that contains thimerosol. If I’m going to agitate for the removal of mercury from something, I’ll go after something that is a far more serious threat. Like seafood (http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm537362.htm)
      3. “Preaching to the converted” is still useful. It gives the “converted” (in this case, people in favor of science education) additional information. Besides, you’d never tell a minister to stop preaching a sermon to his congregation, right? Even though they are presumably already converted?

  3. Pembroke says:

    The simple answer to the Hippy at the start of your post is that she was almost certainly vaccinated when she was young and she’s still upright and breathing and if anything older vaccines were more likely to have contain nasty chemicals than modern more fully researched ones, so what’s the problem?

    Would she rather her child died of the diseases they are designed to prevent? I’m sure if her child died of Measles as some did in my local area a few years ago she might just change her mind.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22051927

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22098583

    http://news.sky.com/story/measles-epidemic-man-dies-in-swansea-10448246

  4. Barry says:

    There’s that sszorin again, credulous as ever when it comes to quackery and misinformation, always happy to provide you with dribble, but unable or unwilling to understand the simple truths in life. Shaking my head again.

    Thanks for the information Richard, it always helps to have a refresher on these things.

  5. Mudguts says:

    Geez you get polite trolls.

  6. Paul Carter Block says:

    Non-existent (and harmless) mercury compound causes autism.
    Buzz Aldrin did not go to the Moon (wear gumshield when you tell him that).
    (yet) The USA has secret bases on Mars.
    We are up to our knees in a variety of space aliens (who reveal themselves only to drunk farmers).
    Huge man-apes roam freely…everywhere.
    An orange-skinned moron with an aptitude for lying through his teeth could become chief executive of the USA.
    Don’t you just love humans!

    • Barry says:

      Haha! Actually it makes me fear for the future of humanity, but at least some of the conspiracy theories are good entertainment value.

    • WorkingInACopShop says:

      Dear Paul: actually I don’t love humans. Not today anyway. Right this minute I feel that every moron with a bright mindless predjudice should be allowed to kill himself, herself, and his or her children in any way that suits him, her, or them. Foregoing vaccination is as good a way as any.

      Oh, by the way, I work for law enforcement. The cruelty, vapid egoism, and blatant deliberate stupidity I have read today convinces me (today) that kindness is as rare as oxygen on Pluto, and common sense has never been common. Ever.

      And our commander in chief is the most embarrassing thing to happen to this planet since the invention of underwear.

      If there are intelligent thinking beings out there reading this, keep it up. Read, think, compare, investigate, learn, and vaccinate your children, your self, and your pets.

      • Paul Carter Block says:

        Dear Working etc: I like to feel I am on the side of common sense but that only allows me to see the absurdities in our species.

        In Africa and the Sub-continent, all sorts of societal problems are routinely blamed on witchcraft and anyone vaguely different is murdered in the most appalling ways.

        A British gastroenterologist made a dodgy claim – based on now-discredited research – about MMR and now children are being denied a potentially life-saving procedure.

        The American electorate swallows a bucket of lies and the most ghastly creature ever to hold down the august office of president has his stumpy digits on the nuclear codes. He and his shady backers make George Dubya and the PNAC crowd look like a teddy-bear’s picnic.

        Maybe it is better to be ignorant or ill-informed and go with the flow that is taking humanity (in both senses) right down the intellectual sewer. Wearing a tinfoil hat and waiting for angels and ET seems like a comfortable way to turns one’s back on a challenging reality.

        Anyway, reading your post and others gives me some reassurance that hope still survives out there in spite of the at least 80% of humans who are biological dross and reproducing themselves at a rate that flies would be proud of. Yea, a cull may save us before it is too late.

        I recommend reading Cyril Kornbluth’s prophetic 1950 novella, The Marching Morons, for a vision of what the world is fast becoming. He put his dystopia 500 years in the future but was out by a factor of ten – it’s already here.

  7. JIMJFOX says:

    Bitten by a dog in Thailand, it was hospital procedure to get no less that 14 shots, just in case- rabies has not been eradicated here. In case Happy Hippies don’t know, rabies is 99.99998 % fatal [10 documented cases exist of survival exist, from the millions that must have contracted it in medical history].
    Question to Hippie– would the ‘school of hard knocks’ protect you? “Would you feel lucky, punk?”

  8. NoDr says:

    Yale University Study Shows Association Between Vaccines and Brain Disorders
    A team of researchers from the Yale School of Medicine and Penn State College of Medicine have found a disturbing association between the timing of vaccines and the onset of certain brain disorders in a subset of children.

    Analyzing five years’ worth of private health insurance data on children ages 6-15, these scientists found that young people vaccinated in the previous three to 12 months were significantly more likely to be diagnosed with certain neuropsychiatric disorders than their non-vaccinated counterparts.

    This new study, which raises important questions about whether over-vaccination may be triggering immune and neurological damage in a subset of vulnerable children (something parents of children with autism have been saying for years), was published in the peer-reviewed journal Frontiers in Psychiatry, Jan. 19.
    http://www.ecowatch.com/yale-vaccine-study-kennedy-2246059411.html

    • Noah Dillon says:

      You should check out the abstract of the original study. They said that the subject deserves further examination, but they didn’t find a strong causal link. This is what they wrote: “These findings warrant further investigation, but DO NOT PROVE a causal role of antecedent infections or vaccinations in the pathoetiology of these conditions,” (emphasis added). It also opens with the statement “the association of the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine with autism spectrum disorder has been convincingly disproven.”

      Also, repeated uses of the prestigious name “Yale” don’t make it any truer or more persuasive. Just pedantic and fallacious.

  9. NoDr says:

    Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Monsanto’s flagship herbicide Roundup and hundreds of other herbicides, has been found in vaccines. Moms Across America received preliminary screening results from Microbe Inotech Laboratories Inc. of St. Louis, Missouri, which showed:

    MMR II (Merk) vaccine had 2.671 parts per billion (ppb) of glyphosate
    DTap Adacel (Sanofi Pasteur) vaccine had 0.123 ppb of glyphosate
    Influenza Fluvirin (Novaris) 0.331 ppb of glyphosate
    HepB Energix-B (Glaxo Smith Kline) 0.325 ppb of glyphosate
    Pneumonoccal Vax Polyvalent Pneumovax 23 (Merk) had 0.107 ppb of glyphosate
    The MMR II vaccine had levels up to 25 times higher than the other vaccines. Following our test, additional independent tests have confirmed these findings at or above the same levels. The tests were conducted using the ELISA method.
    http://www.ecowatch.com/glyphosate-vaccines-1999343362.html

  10. Richard Schwartz says:

    You seem to have something against hippies. Don’t you know that they are really groovy? At least they were not into the tattoos and nose rings that freaks in the 21st century are using to get attention.

    And your consistent opposition to homeopathy is wrong! There is one human ailment that science agrees is treatable by sufficient homeopathic remedy (moderate dehydration).

    Now for my testimonial: I was vaccinated for polio, and have reached the age of 75. That is proof that vaccination causes aging. If you don’t get vaccinated, there is a much better chance that you will never grow old.

  11. Norm says:

    You might want to know how many things show up in your Maryjane, that nature never intended to be there.

  12. Simon says:

    @Mr Schwartz: Love your reasoning, and it does make me wish I’d never been vaccinated, given what the world is coming to now. Unfortunately, my son is also vaccinated, and I shudder to think what he will have to witness.

    Having said that, the short end I and my son may have come to without vaccination, also doesn’t bear thinking long and hard about.

    Ahhh, have the solution now, if i may paraphrase a little: Goedel said no sufficiently complex system can be completely self-consistent. Got it,

    Maybe I am happier to still be alive, after all, given the alternative…

  13. Simon says:

    @ Richard Gant:

    May I say again, keep up the good work. Like the comment on Glyphosphate, and its LD50 relative to contamination levels in vaccines…

    I grew up in rural New Zealand and we used the stuff like water, along with organophosphate sheep-dips, without sufficient protective clothing or equipment. I know my personal experience endorses observation bias, along with numerous other non-sceptical logical foundations, but I still hope people start to learn about how to analyse data in an objective sense, before they start commenting/posting/trolling on rational articles like yours. Kudos for the LD50 on water…

    Regarding water, I heard a story, not yet researched, that Greenpeace was ‘white-hatted’ over the health effects of Dihydrogen oxide…. Maybe that is a cautionary tale worth the telling, if there is a kernel of truth in it.

    Anyways, keep smiling, keep fighting the good fight. Regards,

    • richard1941 says:

      Why are you opposed to homeopathic remedies? There is at least one human ailment that is known to respond to sufficient doses of homeopathic remedy. (Moderate dehydration)

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